Was Mary Tempted to Doubt God?

The Remnant Newspaper ^ | January 2, 2014 | Father Celatus

[ebb tide]

Of the three or so passages describing a direct interface between Jesus Christ and Mary, in each one, it strongly appears Mary is not in fellowship with God, but is being tacitly directed by the Son of God for her improper thinking.

Did Jesus turn the water into wine or not?

Was Jesus obedient to Joseph and Mary, in all things, after being found in the temple or not?

[annalex]

What none of these writers has done is explain the above sentence

Because they are anti-Catholic bigots only interested in bashing pope Francis.

[ebb tide]

This is the second time you’ve referred to a report on the complete homily. Why not present the complete homily? I could give you a report on Evangelii Gaudium; and I doubt you’d like it.

[ebb tide]

Thanks for the ping, but who are you referring to when you say “they”?

[BlatherNaut]

"It may at first seem astonishing to find a devil, such as the one that possessed Antoine Gay, accepting so humbly the role of pronouncing a solemn eulogy of the Blessed Virgin, both at Ars and on several other occasions during the forty years he tormented the unfortunate man. But it is sufficient to recall the remarks of St. Louis Grignion de Montfort in his celebrated treatise Concerning True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin. Speaking of the hostility between Mary and Satan, the saint writes:

"God has only fashioned and shaped one enmity, and that an irreconcilable one, which will endure and even increase, until the end: it is that between the Virgin Mary and the Devil, between the children and servants of the Blessed Virgin and the children and accomplices of Satan; so that the most terrible of the enemies of Satan created by God is Mary, his Blessed Mother. Even from the days of the Earthly Paradise, when she was still only a thought in the mind of God, he endowed her with so much hatred of this accursed enemy of God, so much concern to expose the malice of this old Serpent, so much strength to overcome, cast down and trample on his impious pride, that the Devil fears her more, not only than men and angels but, in a certain sense, than God himself. It is not that the wrath, the power and the hatred of God are not infinitely greater than those of the Blessed Virgin, since Mary's perfections are limited: it is because, in the first place, Satan, being proud, suffers infinitely more from being overcome and punished by the little, humble servant of God, her humility humiliating him more than the divine power; and secondly, because God has given Mary such great power over devils that, as they have often been obliged to admit, in spite of themselves, through the mouths of possessed persons, they are more afraid of one of her sighs of grief over some poor soul, than of the prayers of the saints, and more daunted by a single threat from her than by all their other torments' (loc. cit. No. 52).

And this is precisely what we have heard confirmed by the words of Antoine Gay, the mouthpiece of the devil Isacaron."

http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/EVIDSATN.HTM

[annalex]

Why not present the complete homily?

I am not the Pope's press secretary, so I cannot answer that. However I am an honest man and so I made an effort to find the best information on the homily in order to combat the slander some idiot wrote and you post.

you say “they”?

You and the cretin who wrote the piece you posted.

[ebb tide]

So you’re calling Fr. Celatus, a Catholic priest, both an idiot and a cretin? And an anti-Catholic bigot?

Thanks for showing your colors.

[ebb tide]

Even Neo-Catholics may struggle to spin this whopper!

I believe you may be one of the ones Father was referring to.

[ebb tide]

Scapular helps also. For you, I recommend a brown scapular.

[dangus]

His comments certainly are his own personal interpretation, and not church doctrine. That said, “YOPIOS” is used to flag when someone’s own personal “interpetation” runs counter to that tradition handed down by the apostles. In fact, the very reason I accuse Pope Francis of flirting with heresy is that he appears to be citing a tradition of Catholic thought best represented by Saint Aquinas, but refuted successfully by John Duns Scotus, whose refutation gained unanimous ascent by the Catholic magisterium. (Aquinas was not a heretic because there is no reason to suppose he would not conform to Scotus.)

[xone]

My version was written by the Holy Ghost;

The Holy Ghost bears witness to Christ, not his mom. Your version is inaccurate.

[xone]

And this is precisely what we have heard confirmed by the words of Antoine Gay, the mouthpiece of the devil Isacaron."

So now we believe what the devil says?

[xone]

Her question of the Archangel Gabriel was not one of doubt like Zechariah’s was.

Absolutely.

[BlatherNaut]

So now we believe what the devil says?

When it is scriptural.

"From whence are wars and contentions among you? Are they not hence, from your concupiscences, which war in your members? 2You covet, and have not: you kill, and envy, and can not obtain. You contend and war, and you have not, because you ask not. 3You ask, and receive not; because you ask amiss: that you may consume it on your concupiscences. 4Adulterers, know you not that the friendship of this world is the enemy of God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of this world, becometh an enemy of God. 5Or do you think that the scripture saith in vain: To envy doth the spirit covet which dwelleth in you? 6But he giveth greater grace. Wherefore he saith: God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble."

"Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed."

[xone]

God gave Mary grace, God gives all Christians grace. The enmity is between humans and Satan and his minions. Christ defeated Satan his mom didn’t.

[Cvengr]

Jesus Christ was in the house of His Father. Joseph and especially Mary would have known this had they been in fellowship with God by faith, but instead they believed they had to help God to provide for Jesus. They erred in 2 parts. First they did not keep track of Him in departing from Jerusalem, had they been consistent. Secondly, they asked Jesus why He had caused them sorrow, when the sorrow had been caused by their own negligence and lack of faith.

In this sense they sinned. Jesus was not judgmental when they found Him, but rather posed the situation as a rhetorical questions to them, thereby giving them opportunity to return God, facing Him, and judging their own sins and confessing them to Him properly.

After this incident, even Jesus still submitted to their authority as a family and remained subject to them as he increased in wisdom and grace.

This incident is adequate guidance through faith alone in Christ that the pagan notion of goddess worship, placing Mary as sinless, is a false doctrine. The doctrines of Marion sinlessness have more in common with the Babylonian worship of Mother and Child, than with the grace of God upon Mary.

It is interesting to observe those who remain adament in their Marion worship, that they place more faith in Mary in her relationship to God, than they place faith in Jesus in His relationship with God as they think through these passages. It manifests the thinking of those who place anything prior to what God has provided for our Salvation, namely our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.

[trebb]

“Our Lady was human” and so we talk about her. There isn’t enough conversation about our lady. I struggled for a long time with the last words of Jesus, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.” Even after I learned that it is the first line of Psalm 22 which ends, “he has done it.” Jesus was also human and that was perhaps his greatest gift. Mary is the new Eve and she embraced the cross. I can’t go through any event, even a happy one, without a negative thought. I was born with original sin and she was not but she was human and the devil hates her. So I’m okay with what Francis said. He does stir things up doesn’t he? Makes us have to think.

Many good points - especially the last sentence - far too many will accept what is told them and not bother to question. I like what Glenn Beck says - question boldly; even the existence of God. Because God will stand up to the most intense scrutiny - numerous atheists have been converted by what they learned while trying to disprove His existence.

I wondered much about Jesus' cry, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.”. My personal belief is that this was the first time that He had tasted/experienced sin. The same sin which separates us from the Father also separated Him from the Father. He had probably not gone a second of His existence without the Presence of the Father ever so clear and suddenly the connection was broken - that probably anguished Him more than the physical torture.

Do you have another slant on it? I'd like to hear it if you do, to add some more fodder for me to mull over.

[Mercat]

I have read that the Hebrews often referenced an entire psalm by quoting only the first line. This was a prophetic psalm but I do like your insight that it was the experience of sin. Jesus had to let go of everything to win our salvation and He did take on all our sins. The entire Passion is a series of loss for him. The only apostle who might have been close to being his intellectual equal betrays him, his faith community condemns him, his best friend denies him, his government shrugs and turns him over to be crucified. And that’s just the psychological and emotional loss. The scourging was enough to kill him. The crown of thorns was humiliation. At some point in there his bodily functions would have failed him subjecting him to further humiliation. He had to meet his mother and know that she was suffering with him.

[piusv]

But as I said earlier in the thread, Neo-Catholics aren’t struggling to spin it. They are boldly claiming better understanding and better catholicity than those who see things very differently through the eyes of Catholic Tradition....apparently now even a Catholic priest.

[xzins]

Hi Annalex, I’ve known Salvation to be a Catholic Freeper for a long, long time. Honestly, I don’t know if ebbtide, piusv, and blathernaut are Catholic. I have just assumed that they are. Or perhaps they’re from a different branch such as Byzantine Catholic.