Posted on 12/26/2013 8:42:16 AM PST by NYer
I found this amazing. Somebody sent Father Z. a translation of an interview with Cardinal Meisner.
In it, Cardinal Meisner relays how he directly asked the Pope about his teaching style using interview and short speeches with remarks that need further explanation. Cardinal Meisner relays that the Pope got 'big eyes' and asked for an example.
“At my last meeting with Pope Francis, I had the opportunity to talk very open to him about a lot of things. And I told him that some questions remain unanswered in his style of spreading the gospel through interviews and short speeches, questions which need some extended explanation for people who are not so involved. The pope looked at me “with big eyes” and asked me to give an example. And my response was : During the flight back from Rio you were asked about people who divorced and remarried. And the pope responded frankly: People who are divorced can receive communion, people who are remarried can’t. In the orthodox church you can marry twice. And then he talked about mercy, which, according to my view, is seen in this country only as a surrogate for all human faults. And the pope responded quite bluntly that he’s a son of the church, and he doesn’t proclaim anything else than the teachings of the church. And mercy has to be identical with truth – if not, she doesn’t deserve that name. Furthermore, when there are open theological questions, it’s up to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to give detailed responses“.As noted by Father Z., the Pope doesn't seem aware of the chaos that followed some of those remarks and the way they were taken by those who are not loyal sons of the Church.
Sounds like a Pontius Pilate washing his hands. First of all, it's not an "open theological question(s)"; it never has been since Christ spoke about it. Secondly, he shouldn't talk about that which he claims he can't "give detailed responses" to.
I thought he was the Vicar of Christ.
lakeshark:
All of the Kennedy’s did not get annulments, one was the son of Robert Kennedy whose annulment was denied in Rome. And for the record, I think his wife was Anglican and the Church sided with her, not him. Of course, this was the Roman Canon Law Tribunal not the Archdiocese of Boston who made that ruling, if I remember correctly.
That's because I find no biblical mandate whatsoever that a church has any binding or authority in a marriage...The only evidence in the New Testament in the church age of a marriage taking place is the consummation of the marriage...
There's nothing magical about your religion that makes a marriage valid or not valid...If there was, it would mean the marriage was ordained Spiritually and there would be no room for a Spiritual mistake, ergo, anulment...
and none of them are modern day….Jerry Brown comes to mind (amongst others) the modern jesuits are no friend of Christians
Sounds OK to me. There are more than enough politicians who tailor their message to their audience.
True. Many, many cases of scandalous, sinful and simply careless activities by fallen men and women have maligned the condition of the annulment and its process, to the shame and embarrassment of the Church.
We probably would agree, however, that the media would like to make the scandals synonomous with, and the permanent and general definition of the Catholic Church. Sadly, it seems to be working more often than not.
Thx—
The "cost" of the annulment is for the investigation. The tribunal does a through investigation to determine if the sacrament has been confected (performed) correctly. This is a lengthy process that takes a lot of time and paperwork. Not everyone that applies for one gets one and depending on financial circumstances the fee can be waved.
That being said: Yes there have been abuses to the system, but you don't blame the system you blame the individuals.
Are you familiar with the church's annulment process?
They still take vows. How do you know that all Jesuits are rotten?
I disagree.
Americans are so obsessed with personalities, that we are blind around ideas. Arguments on this forum whether Snowden is a traitor or patriot when as Sarah Palin herself observed (another reason to admire her) that the story is not about Snowden at all, and now and forever this Pope whom we have to define one way or another, describe in categorical terms and declarative sentences, while ignoring or incapable of comprehending the ideas.
Excellent point! Politicians and Hollyweird celebrities seem to predominate. I was saddened by the news report of a dying girl's last wish to attend a Beyonce concert. Beyonce invited her onstage to dance with her while she sang. The new "heroes" are charlatans.
ANNULMENT
Official declaration by competent authority that, for lawful reasons, a previous act or contract was invalid and consequently null and void. In ecclesiastical law, annulments mainly apply to marriage contracts over which the Church has the right to determine their validity. (Etym. Latin an-, to + nullus, none; annullare, to annihilate, to annul.)
All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.
Iscool:
So where do you find it in the Bible that says the “Secular State has authority over Marriage” Cleary ST. Paul speaks of Christ love for the Church using the image of spousal love. For example, in 2 Cor 11: 2-3 he states “I feel a divine jealousy for you for I betrothed you to CHrist to present you as a pure bride to her one husband. In his Epistle to the Ephesians, St. Paul clearly speaks of marital love using Christ’s love for the Church. He in know way uses “secular law and a man and a woman going to the government to get a legal marriage license” (cf Ephesians 5:21-31). Jesus first miracle was performed, at the request of his Mother Mary, at the Wedding feast at Canna where water is transformed into wine (cf. John 2:2-11). Wine here prefigures Christ in many ways, including the Eucharist {See Mt, Mk and Luke Last Supper narratives and St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 10:16), joys of marital love (Song of Songs 1:2; 4:10) and it prefigures the wedding banquet in heaven foretold in the Book of Revelation 19:7-9 and the New heaven and new earth again foretold in the book of Revelation 21:2-3 again using the image of spousal love of a groom and a bride.
In summary, while it is obvious I don’t share the same theology on many questions and issues with you [Authority, Justification, sacraments, etc], one would think given the use of marriage in the Bible in so many contexts to describe God’s love for the Church, etc, one would think your theology of Marriage would be rooted in these scriptural texts [which the Catholic Church’s Sacramental Theology of Marriage is rooted in] rather than being rooted in “secular law.” In fact, I am totally surprised by your marriage theology or more so, your lack of a biblically based marriage theology and find it again totally rooted in secular law and the court system.
I got an annulment several years ago. I was told about the fee for the processing of the paperwork, but that if I could not afford it, it didn’t matter. They would proceed anyway. They ask those who can afford it to help offset the costs. Those who can’t afford it, simply don’t have to pay anything. At least that’s the way it is in my diocese.
And in every diocese I have lived in.
Vatican reverses Kennedy ruling Ex-congressman's annulment voided
Why did the Archdiocese of Boston delay informing Mrs. Kennedy of Rome's overruling of her annulment for more than two years?
Do it yourself. I am not your slave.
I already have. Have you done so for yourself?
I did not say that all jesuits are rotten… you put words in my mouth (why am I not surprised?).
Disagree all you want but do some reading on the social justice movement espoused, started by , and embraced by the jesuits.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.