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1 posted on 12/22/2013 1:46:25 PM PST by piusv
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To: piusv

Probably “Papa’ Francis shouldn’t attempt to be reading people’s minds when he admits himself “she said nothing” of what he is claiming.


2 posted on 12/22/2013 1:49:10 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: piusv

Thank you for straightening me out on this matter. Wait...huh?


3 posted on 12/22/2013 1:49:37 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: piusv

Oy.


4 posted on 12/22/2013 1:50:44 PM PST by BlessedBeGod (Democrats are Cruz'n for a Bruisin' in 2016. / Obama=Unspeakable Audacity)
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To: piusv

The Cardinals elected the wrong man. He’s a loose cannon. He gathers around him the worst charlatans (Wuerl, O’Malley).

Even though he seems to be the wrong man for the job, he has it. Infallibility is not at issue. Let’s just hope he doesn’t do too much damage.


6 posted on 12/22/2013 2:01:30 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: piusv
This is the context that the Pope was referring to, from John Paul's encyclical.

This blessing reaches its full meaning when Mary stands beneath the Cross of her Son (cf. Jn. 19:25). The Council says that this happened "not without a divine plan": by "suffering deeply with her only-begotten Son and joining herself with her maternal spirit to his sacrifice, lovingly consenting to the immolation of the victim to whom she had given birth," in this way Mary "faithfully preserved her union with her Son even to the Cross."38 It is a union through faith- the same faith with which she had received the angel's revelation at the Annunciation. At that moment she had also heard the words: "He will be great...and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end" (Lk. 1:32-33).

And now, standing at the foot of the Cross, Mary is the witness, humanly speaking, of the complete negation of these words. On that wood of the Cross her Son hangs in agony as one condemned. "He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows...he was despised, and we esteemed him not": as one destroyed (cf. Is. 53:3- 5). How great, how heroic then is the obedience of faith shown by Mary in the face of God's "unsearchable judgments"! How completely she "abandons herself to God" without reserve, offering the full assent of the intellect and the will"39 to him whose "ways are inscrutable" (cf. Rom. 11:33)! And how powerful too is the action of grace in her soul, how all-pervading is the influence of the Holy Spirit and of his light and power!

Through this faith Mary is perfectly united with Christ in his self- emptying. For "Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men": precisely on Golgotha "humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross" (cf. Phil. 2:5-8). At the foot of the Cross Mary shares through faith in the shocking mystery of this self- emptying. This is perhaps the deepest "kenosis" of faith in human history. Through faith the Mother shares in the death of her Son, in his redeeming death; but in contrast with the faith of the disciples who fled, hers was far more enlightened. On Golgotha, Jesus through the Cross definitively confirmed that he was the "sign of contradiction" foretold by Simeon. At the same time, there were also fulfilled on Golgotha the words which Simeon had addressed to Mary: "and a sword will pierce through your own soul also."

[ Redemptoris Mater, 18]

You be the judge whether an oral remark spoken by His Holiness in a homily fits John Paul II's well-measured prose. The blogger thinks it doesn't. I think, the blogger ignores the necessary difference in style between an encyclical and a homily.

7 posted on 12/22/2013 2:01:53 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: piusv
And perhaps she would have wanted to say, 'lies! I have been cheated!

Mary was conceived without sin, and thus would be incapable of wanting to call God a liar or a cheat. For a Pope to voice such speculations regarding the Mother of God is bizarre. Pope Francis is replacing theological truths with his own personal views and interpretations.

8 posted on 12/22/2013 2:03:04 PM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: piusv

Here are the words of John Paul II in the original:

John Paul II said something else

This blessing reaches its full meaning when Mary stands beneath the Cross of her Son (cf. Jn. 19:25). The Council says that this happened “not without a divine plan”: by “suffering deeply with her only-begotten Son and joining herself with her maternal spirit to his sacrifice, lovingly consenting to the immolation of the victim to whom she had given birth,” in this way Mary “faithfully preserved her union with her Son even to the Cross.”38 It is a union through faith- the same faith with which she had received the angel’s revelation at the Annunciation. At that moment she had also heard the words: “He will be great...and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end” (Lk. 1:32-33).

And now, standing at the foot of the Cross, Mary is the witness, humanly speaking, of the complete negation of these words. On that wood of the Cross her Son hangs in agony as one condemned. “He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows...he was despised, and we esteemed him not”: as one destroyed (cf. Is. 53:3- 5). How great, how heroic then is the obedience of faith shown by Mary in the face of God’s “unsearchable judgments”! How completely she “abandons herself to God” without reserve, offering the full assent of the intellect and the will”39 to him whose “ways are inscrutable” (cf. Rom. 11:33)! And how powerful too is the action of grace in her soul, how all-pervading is the influence of the Holy Spirit and of his light and power!

Through this faith Mary is perfectly united with Christ in his self- emptying. For “Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men”: precisely on Golgotha “humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross” (cf. Phil. 2:5-8). At the foot of the Cross Mary shares through faith in the shocking mystery of this self- emptying. This is perhaps the deepest “kenosis” of faith in human history. Through faith the Mother shares in the death of her Son, in his redeeming death; but in contrast with the faith of the disciples who fled, hers was far more enlightened. On Golgotha, Jesus through the Cross definitively confirmed that he was the “sign of contradiction” foretold by Simeon. At the same time, there were also fulfilled on Golgotha the words which Simeon had addressed to Mary: “and a sword will pierce through your own soul also.”

[ Redemptoris Mater, 18]


9 posted on 12/22/2013 2:05:22 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: piusv

LOL!

Where did this guy go to school? Honestly.


13 posted on 12/22/2013 2:14:05 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: piusv

Not good.


15 posted on 12/22/2013 2:17:34 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

Ping!


18 posted on 12/22/2013 2:19:14 PM PST by piusv
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To: piusv; metmom

The Mary the greater than Christ Worshippers won’t be happy


24 posted on 12/22/2013 2:36:37 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: piusv; Salvation; NYer; annalex; BlatherNaut

Creating a new tempest in that well used teapot.

According to the article, Pope Francis said “The Blessed Mother was human! And perhaps she would have wanted to say, ‘lies! I have been cheated!’.”

Key words Mary “was human.” To me Pope Francis is speculating on what a very human Mary’s personal and never spoken thoughts to seeing her son crucified may have been. He is not claiming she said anything or stating that she actually thought it. He is bring Mary to us as a fellow human being; not a demi/semi-goddess or marble saint, but a mother going through the shock of seeing her son being executed.

Yep, he should have not said it as it becomes another ‘let’s whip Frankie’ point.


28 posted on 12/22/2013 2:51:14 PM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: piusv

Pope Frank is a very imaginative guy.


56 posted on 12/22/2013 4:59:25 PM PST by miserare (Sebelius is Obama's Mengele.)
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To: piusv

Once more, we are witnessing the melt-down of another major Christian Church due to political correctness.


109 posted on 12/23/2013 6:24:35 AM PST by ZULU (Impeach that Bastard Barrack Hussein Obama the Doctor Mengele of Medical Care)
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To: piusv

Catholics have Mary and Mormons have the Spirit Mother Goddess thingie. I’ll just stick with my bible.


136 posted on 12/23/2013 7:15:53 PM PST by DungeonMaster
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To: piusv

Very disturbing....


260 posted on 12/31/2013 10:07:19 AM PST by PatriotGirl827 (O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee)
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