Posted on 12/22/2013 1:46:25 PM PST by piusv
"The Gospel tells us nothing: if she said a word or not ... She was quiet, but in her heart - how much she said to the Lord! 'You told me then - that's what we have read - that He will be great. You told me that You would give him the throne of his father David, that he will reign over the house of Jacob forever. And now I see Him there!' The Blessed Mother was human! And perhaps she would have wanted to say, 'lies! I have been cheated!'.
(Excerpt) Read more at eponymousflower.blogspot.co.uk ...
Mary also had asked “How shall this be done” (Luke 1:34). Belonging wholly to the Lord did not deprive her of reason, and therefore of the ability of questioning her own assumptions: “You told me then - that’s what we have read - that He will be great. You told me that You would give him the throne of his father David, that he will reign over the house of Jacob forever. And now I see Him there!”
Expert I am not but I studied the matter and reached the conclusion based on facts and reason, rather than on your knee jerking.
you are still assuming he was offering a hypothetical
I am not assuming; I read the homily: "perhaps she would have wanted to say...". "Perhaps".
I based it on fact and reasoning as well. I based it on my knowledge of TRADITIONAL Catholic teaching on the Mother of God. Just stop the insulting comments.
Perhaps means “maybe”. Maybe she thought God was a liar. Again, based on TRADITIONAL Catholic teaching about MARY, this “Maybe” would never have happened. PERIOD. His comments don’t even jive with JPII’s!
But you go on defending him.
And then she thinks: YOU LIED!!!!
You know, I’m with ebbtide, it’s blasphemy. May God forgive Francis and those who defend him for these words that dishonor His Mother.
And then she thinks: YOU LIED!!!!
No, the text does not say any of that. This is what the text actually says:
perhaps she would have wanted to say, 'lies! I have been cheated!'. [...] But she was overshadowed with the silence of the mystery that she did not understand, and with this silence, she has accepted that this mystery can grow and flourish in the hope.
If you want to be taken seriously, try accuracy, and basic reading comprehension.
How can it be a "hypothetical" when it isn't even a "possible" (per the soon-to-be canonized JPII)? How can you reconcile two opposing characterizations of our Blessed Mother? Answer: It can't be done. Pope Francis' words clearly constitute a diminuation of Our Blessed Mother's virtues in a way that is inconsistent with the teachings of a number of prior popes.
Yes it is entirely possible for the Blessed Mother to reassess her prior assumption of what Christ's kingship means. See a half-dozen posts above.
So what is it then? Did Our Blessed Mother suspect St. Gabriel of lying to Her? That’s what it sounds like the Pope is saying.
The above are Our Lady's words to St. Bridget. It is doubts by Pope Francis and others on this forum that still, to this day, renew Her grief.
Not according to Pope John Paul II, whose teachings on Mary are in accord with previous popes (teachings with which Pope Francis' remarks are out of sync). It would be illogical to discard the consistent teachings of the Church in favor of speculative musings.
"...no imperfection harmed her perfect harmony with God"
"Perfect harmony" with God cannot coexist with a false assumption regarding God.
Are you perchance a disciple of Kant?
My point continues to be that you and Francis are suggesting that Mary would even think to say something that is NOT in HER nature. The hypothetical that you keep asserting is that she might respond like us. But this could not happen. She is not like us. She is "above all men and angels" and "greater than Eve" before the Fall, says Pope Pius IX in the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception.
NEVER has a Pope or a saint spoken of Mary the way you and Francis are speaking of her. It is not Catholic. It is Protestant. The constant defense of this so-called hypothetical angers and disgusts me.
Can't wait to hear what Francis has in store for us in the coming year......
I notice you like to cut off the rest of others’ quotes so that all that is left is “How can it be hypothetical” rather than responding to the full quote/point about said hypothetical.
perhaps she would have wanted to say, 'lies! I have been cheated!'. [...] But she was overshadowed with the silence of the mystery that she did not understand, and with this silence, she has accepted that this mystery can grow and flourish in the hope.
Perhaps, Our Lady would have doubted the promise of St. Gabriel, but instead she kept her silence and accepted the mystery and let the mystery flourish in the hope.
You can read for yourself, right?
Calm down.
coexists with human intellect just fine.
Yes. That, you did, incorrectly. Next time, read or ask someone to read it to you, like I just did.
She is "above all men and angels" and "greater than Eve" before the Fall, says Pope Pius IX in the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception.
And yet, she is ontologically fully human like all of us. She can, therefore reason, and His Holiness just gave us an example of what her reasoning might have been, but was not, for she remained silent.
What about the Wedding at Cana? Our Lord had not yet performed any miracles, yet the Blessed Mother told the wine stewards to do as He said. Our Lady was not as oblivious as Francis, and others on this forum, make Her appear to be.
My response (208) is close to the question (207) and I don’t want to clutter the thread with repetitions. Generally, I invite the reader to read the post being answered in full and not rely to a short marker that indicates the focus of the response.
I think by now all of you three have said everything you’ve got to say about it, and many times each, and I keep responding to your agitated incomprehension quite patiently. If somehow I missed something still, by all means, point it out to me.
Right; both at the Wedding at Cana and in the hypothetical offered by His Holiness, her internal struggle remained internal and outwardly, in the proposed psychological picture,
...she was overshadowed with the silence of the mystery that she did not understand, and with this silence, she has accepted that this mystery can grow and flourish in the hope.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.