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Locked on 12/26/2013 5:28:25 AM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish behavior |
Posted on 12/22/2013 7:28:20 AM PST by DouglasKC
“The Christian faith has not been tried and found wanting. It has rather been found difficult and left untried.” —Chesterton
I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending.The story of Jesus is either the greatest event in history or the cruelest hoax. If it is a hoax, then the whole of the Christian message crumbles together with the hopes of those multitudes of lives built on his name. The apostle Paul said:
“And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up; if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.” -1 Corinthians 15:14-19 (NKJV)
But if the story is true, then this world has been hit with extraordinary news of earth-shaking consequences. Have you taken the trouble to decide which it is?
In a matter this weighty, it is in your interest to explore the truth or falsity of Christ's claims. Amazingly however, many people who don't believe have never bothered to explore the evidence in support of Jesus,[1] but to the contrary, often run away from it. At the same time, many Christians themselves are not sure, at bottom, whether the claims of their faith are solid. Is the Christian claim a hoax? Is it just wishful thinking? Or is it actually true?
(Excerpt) Read more at christiananswers.net ...
Did your supposed heresy begin with one of the original disciples?
Was Thomas rebuked by Christ for saying:
John 20:
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
John 20:
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
In order to understand why so much Scripture refers to Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Son of Man, is that in His Incarnation as the Son, He performed as the perfect example of how every man is to remain in fellowship with God.
He never denied the truth, but He wasn’t here to glorify Himself, but rather to glorify the Father. He wasn’t arrogant.
This doesn’t imply He wasn’t God. It does make a discernment between different persons of the Godhead, but still one God.
Some people have described the role of the persons in the Trinity as a parallel to a Broadway show. The Father wrote and produced the play, the Son is the principal actor, and the Holy Spirit controls the spotlight glorifying the Son.
Make a list of different events in Scripture attributed to God, then discern the role of each person as described in Scripture in that event. It is much easier to understand by receiving what He provides in Scripture, than academically arguing the notions surrounding theology.
Note to self,...by process of elimination, fabian is not Harold Camping.
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 14:8-9 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”
of course it means “God with us” ! God’s prefect will is expressed through his Son. How blind can “Christians” be?
John 14:8-9 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father
***********************
It’s hard for Trinitarians to understand but that passage is not saying Jesus is God.
Even in an earthly sense a man can say who has seen me has seen my Father. An Earthly Father can have the same characteristics and even similar appearance as his son.A person could say who has seen me has seen my Father and not be meaning they are their Father literally, but only that they have the same characteristics and possibly appearance.
Jesus expressed Love here on earth an that is the nature of the Father. God is Love. So those that saw God using Jesus also saw the Father. Hence, “he who has seen me has seen the Father.”
But such an explanation does not fit into their theology.
God himself said “This is my Son in whom I am well pleased”
He didn’t say “This is me God, third person of the Trinity”
But no amount of persuasion will convince those who will not see. God himself has to show you who Jesus is.
And, like Peter, He will show those who seek to know the truth will all their heart.
As Jesus said, “Blessed art thou Peter for Flesh and Blood have not revealed it to you, but my Father in Heaven”
This Christmas season may the Creator bless you to see the truth and not accept man made doctrines.
“But no amount of persuasion will convince those who will not see.
Indeed, it’s quite sad that you couldn’t respond to any of my posts in any actual detail.
King James Bible
In the beginning was the Word, & the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Revised English Bible Translates John 1:1
John 1:1
“...and what God was, the Word was.”
********************************************
Please note that these different translations do not say the same thing. And The Revised English Bible is an authoritative translation.
The churches and other Christian groups that sponsored the REB were:
Baptist Union of Great Britain
Bible Society
Church of England
Church of Scotland
Council of Churches for Wales
Irish Council of Churches
The London Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends
Methodist Church of Great Britain
Moravian Church in Great Britain and Ireland
National Bible Society of Scotland
Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales
Roman Catholic Church in Ireland
Roman Catholic Church in Scotland
Salvation Army
United Reformed Church
John 1:1 is the most famous but it is translated various ways and as I have posted The Book of John itself says its purpose is that you might believe Jesus is the Son of God. Anyway, I have learned there is no point in arguing with most Trinitarians. They do not want to see.
The term son of God is used various ways in the Word. Angels are sons of God in glory. All men are sons of God by Creation, which does not make them redeemed. Christians are Sons of God by Redemption. In John 3:16 we read ,Jesus is the only Son of God. The Greek for only-begotten is monogenes, and translated that is mono (one) and genes (kind). Jesus is the unique Son of God, deity from deity.
You cannot be more wrong, and I will be posting evidence to that effect.
Amen!
John 20:
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. Col. 2:9 NIV
IF THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD (DEITY) LIVES IN JESUS, THEN HOW MUCH MORE OF THE GODHEAD HAS TO LIVE IN HIM FOR HIM TO BE GOD?
I don’t think you can actually show me what the difference in meaning is between:
“When all things began, the Word already was. The Word dwelt with God, and what God was, the Word was.” (REB John 1:1)
And Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
God is = God
What God was + The Word was = God
By the way, the REB is not a direct translation. It is a “dynamic” translation:
“Because dynamic equivalence eschews strict adherence to the grammatical structure of the original text in favor of a more natural rendering in the target language, it is sometimes used when the readability of the translation is more important than the preservation of the original grammatical structure.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_and_formal_equivalence
Here’s a literal translation:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; (Young’s Literal Translation)
Another literal translation, same exact wording
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (LITV)
The Vulgate agrees, same exact wording:
Joh 1:1 in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
Webster, with no difference:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The ESV, no difference:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Same with MKJV, Murdock, Revised Version, Weymouth 1912 translation.
The International Standard version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Jubilee Bible uses the same exact wording as all the former. As does the ASV,
The BBE reads:
Joh 1:1 From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God.
The CEV:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the one who is called the Word. The Word was with God and was truly God.
The Darby uses the KJV’s reading, as do most of the others. The DRB agrees. The English Majority Text concurs.
The ERV:
Joh 1:1 Before the world began, the Word was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Finally, the KJV with strong’s numbers:
Joh 1:1 InG1722 the beginningG746 wasG2258 theG3588 Word,G3056 andG2532 theG3588 WordG3056 wasG2258 withG4314 God,G2316 andG2532 theG3588 WordG3056 wasG2258 God.G2316
The latter words: ho (the) logos (Word) ane (was) Theos (God).
In case you don’t know, but the verb to be is a linking verb here, with Theos (God) being the predicate nominative. Word = God, in other words.
Actually, a mistake. The vulgate reads it “In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and God was the Word.”
The latter order is just changed over :)
Great. I look forward to seeing it but I don’t think you will be able to show me.
Perhaps you might understand if I put it this way.
If the Spirit of Christ lives in you (as it should if you are a Christian), that doesn’t make you Christ , does it?
And if the Spirit of God lives in Christ, that doesn’t make him God.
Sure I can. One says the Word was God.
The other does not say the Word was God.
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