Posted on 12/21/2013 11:13:29 AM PST by GonzoII
|
Hebrews 6:4-6 reveals a rather unsettling truth: We can lose our state of grace and fall away from the Lord. For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For those who teach what Calvinists call “the final perseverance of the saints,” this text presents real problems. Some will argue the above description only refers to people who “knew about the Lord,” but were never really saved to begin with. I have always wondered if those making that argument can really be satisfied with it. It seems the inspired author makes clear, almost to the point of redundancy, that he was speaking about those who have been saved and then “commit apostasy.” Another Protestant tack is to claim the author is presenting an impossible hypothetical. In other words, he’s saying it would be impossible to restore again to repentance one who had truly been baptized into Jesus Christ because it is impossible for such a person to fall away to begin with. This doesn’t work, either. The author is presenting a warning of the peril of falling away from the Lord. He would hardly warn his readers of something that is impossible to actually happen. Do Catholics Prove Too Much? Most “eternally secure” Protestants with whom I have spoken about these verses of Scripture end up acknowledging their case to be weak from the text alone. But when cornered, I have found almost invariably they attempt to turn the tables on me by claiming I prove too much as a Catholic. If this text is saying one can fall away, then it also says the one who falls away cannot be restored. This would be contrary to Catholic teaching. The greater context of the entire epistle gives us the answer to this apparent difficulty. Hebrews was written to… you guessed it… Hebrews. But more specifically to Hebrew Christians who were being tempted to go back to the Old Covenant priesthood, sacrifices, and other practices, like circumcision, in order to be saved. It is in this context—from start to finish—that the inspired author runs the gamut on Jewish belief showing how Christ is greater than and/or is the fulfillment of the entire Old Covenant. In chapters one and two, Jesus is revealed to be greater than the angels; he’s revealed to be God (see Hebrews 1:5-10). In chapters three and four, he is our true high priest, greater than Moses, and fulfillment of what the Sabbath symbolized (see 3:3; 4:2-11). In chapters five and seven, he is the antitype of Melchizadek (5:5-10; 7:11). In chapter eight, he is superior to and the fulfillment of the Old Covenant in establishing the New (8:8-13). In chapters nine and ten, he is superior to the temple and its sacrifices (9:23-24; 10:4-10). And it is in this context that the inspired author then exhorts his readers to endure the persecution that had already begun by this time (10:32-39). He calls them to “hold fast the confession of [their] hope without wavering” (10:23), and to remain faithful to the Church Jesus established rather than go back to an Old Covenant and its sacrifices that have no power to save (10:25-31; 12:18-25; 13:7-10). If we understand the greater context, we understand that the author of Hebrews is not saying it is impossible to be forgiven of the sin of apostasy; rather, it is impossible for those who “have tasted the heavenly gift” of the New Covenant and would then return to the Old Covenant to be saved. Why? Because they are trusting in a covenant, law, priesthood, sacrifice, and more that do not possess the power to save. They are returning to a well without water. If these same Hebrews, or by allusion anyone down through the centuries who may have apostatized, turn back to Christ and his Church trusting in the graces that alone come from the sacrifice of Christ, then of course they can be restored to a saving relationship with God. |
“What more do we have to offer?”
To presume that we do or must have something more to offer is blasphemy, saying that the sacrificial death of Christ, the act of atonement He performed, is inadequate, the clear Word of God to the contrary notwithstanding.
Please don’t spam me, dude...
Yes. Once you reject it and go back to your sinning ways
8-)
On Infant Baptism and the Complete Gratuity of Salvation
Essays for Lent/Easter: Salvation Outside the Church?
The Question of Universal Salvation: Will All Be Saved?
"There Can Be No Rupture in Salvation History" [Benedict XVI to Jewish Community in Germany]
The Catholic Teaching on Salvation by Faith Alone (Catholic / Orthodox Caucus)
Promising Salvation to Non-Catholics: A Sin against Charity
On Being Sober and Serious in Seeking Salvation
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] Benedict XVI at Angelus: Mary's mission of salvation and intercession continues..
Finders Keepers? - The Evangelical notion that Christians can't lose their salvation is unbiblical.
Fresh Embrace of Everlasting Salvation [New Mass Translation Does Away With "Barbecue Talk"]
Marriage is instrument of salvation for society, declares Benedict XVI
Catholic and Protestant "Similarities" on Faith, Faith Alone, Salvation...
Radio Replies Second Volume - Salvation of the Soul
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Salvation: A Biblical Portrait
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Salvation: "Being Saved"
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Catholic Response to "Are You Saved?"
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Knowledge of Salvation
A note from Roy Schoeman... (author of 'Salvation is from the Jews')
Radio Replies First Volume - Grace and salvation
Radio Replies First Volume - "Outside the Church no salvation"
Salvation - Are You Saved?
No Salvation Outside the Church
Prayer the Great Means of Salvation: Ch.1: The Necessity of Prayer, Sect. 3 Invocation of the Saints
Prayer the Great Means of Salvation: Chapter 1: The Necessity of Prayer, Section 2
Prayer: The Great Means of Salvation and of Perfection Ch. 1: The Necessity of Prayer, Section 1
What does the Catholic Church mean by the phrase, "Outside the Church there is no salvation"
Christian, I Presume? (Salvation) [Ecumenical]
Rock Solid: The Salvation History of the Catholic Church [Ecumenical]
Who Can Be Saved?
Grace, Faith, and Works
Getting in Touch With Reality (good character and behavior as a ticket to Heaven)
My Personal Savior
The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Extra ecclesiam - Outside the Church there is no salvation.M.a
Is Faith Necessary for Salvation? (Part 2)
Good Will Equals Salvation? (Did the pope say non christians could be saved - part 1)
The Experience of the Salvation of Christ Today
Nonbelievers Too Can Be Saved, Says Pope
Worthy Is the Lamb?
Limbo and the Hope of Salvation
Thanks, Fats..uhh..I mean, Tom.
Is that in the Bible?
“Is that in the Bible?”
Dunno, does your Bible include the verses I quoted? Don’t troll me. Talk to me straight and honestly.
No you cannot, once saved always saved but you can lose fellowship with the lORD
No. It is NOT the t.v. remote control.
And God is not an (~gasp!) Indian-giver.
HOWEVER, we have the free will to ACCEPT salvation through the work of Jesus Christ AND also to REJECT it at ANY time.
God doesn’t play “gotcha!” with us. We can walk in and we can walk out, but would be a fearful thing to feel the door hit yer backside after doing so.
The author needs to quit visiting with the "setup" Protestants who only meet his preconceived ideas. But, this is fairly common Romanist practice. Start with a straw man, then beat the stuffings out of him. Perhaps a good lesson in hermeneutics would cure his wayward soul...if God allows.
oh please. So if Stalin and Hitler were once saved its okay to kill millions, rape thousands?
no, it’s not. You can lose your salvation when you do things like that, you are choosing to surrender it
You guys are probably tough enough to handle it. :-)
I am a firm believer in once saved always saved. How does this differ from the Reformed view on Irresistible Grace and Preservation of Saints?
Tim Staples must be a convert.
He knows how to take the scenic tour through all the points, curves, mountains and valleys of protestant directions through Bible Alone.
It’s hardly a fair fight.
Without understanding fully the sign posts of the Old Testament and absent the oral Tradition of the Early Fathers guided by the Holy Spirit, it is a natural progression to splinter from the early faith, its practices and original understanding. Certainly it explains the thousands of spin offs from the protestant denominations of disparate opinions.
Thanks, Tim.
The doctrine that you can lose your salvation can be likened to playing Russian roulette between heaven and hell.
So the Lord is an Indian giver?
“I give you eternal life......if you can keep it”.
If I didn’t and COULDN’T earn it, then how can I possibly KEEP it?
Quoting the ‘party line’ about the ‘blank check’ is ludicrous. I do not strive to live a holy life to GET SAVED, I strive to do so because I AM Saved.
Without passing judgement, as that is not mine to do, one can question a ‘believers’ professed salvation when there is no fruit: holy living, thirst for Gods Word, church attendance, and of course good works to give God glory.
>>OSAS is a false doctrine. A person can think they are saved and disobey
I don’t completely not believe in OSAS. But, the problem with it is that people think (and are told) that a 10 second prayer is all you need and then you can go back to your same old life.
Bluster much?
Got special privilege from Jim and John?
You just killed a perfectly good thread, highjacked it to bloviate in a show of domination by monopolising space on an FR thread.
Happy now?
Only the Father knows for sure but I don't believe it and don't plan on losing any sleep over what I believe is a promise from the Lord.
Nope, but we can give it back. We can reject it. Christ isn't an ogre who will force it on us...
Good reply. Care to address the rest of my post?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.