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To: Gamecock

It neutralizes the meaning of Eph. 2:12&19

” remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world... So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, “

How could someone who was never in any real danger of going to hell be truthfully described as, “having no hope and without God in the world”?


20 posted on 12/02/2013 6:26:27 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
Given that God ordains the day of our death
Psalm 139:16 All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

And the elect were, well, elected their Salvation was there from beofre the foundation of the world.

Eph 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.

God will bring His elect to Himself before our appointed death.

21 posted on 12/02/2013 6:35:35 PM PST by Gamecock (If you like your constitution, you can keep your constitution. Period. (M.S.))
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To: PetroniusMaximus; All

“How could someone who was never in any real danger of going to hell be truthfully described as, “having no hope and without God in the world”?”


The reference is to our condition prior to salvation, as we are “by nature” children of wrath, which is changed once we, who were dead in sin (and incapable of faith) were quickened by the Spirit.

“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)”
(Eph 2:1-5)

This is why Paul says that there is no one who is righteous, or who seeks after God or understands God. Not because he was forgetting Christians, but because it really is true for all mankind without the work of the Holy Spirit. Prior to salvation, we are “by nature” the children of wrath, corrupted in both flesh and MIND.

“What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.”
(Rom 3:9-11)

We can neither understand God nor believe in Him prior to salvation. The cure then is the work of the Holy Spirit, who “quickens” us in His mercy, without regard for our merits, whether foreseen or possible.

“no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost” (1 Co 12:3).

“And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”
(Mat 16:16-17)

This is done not for all mankind, but for part only, whom God elected before the foundation of the world. As Christ says when explaining to the unbelieving Jews the reason why they do not believe:

“But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.”
(Joh 6:64-65)

And Paul,

“That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”
(Rom 9:8-16)

2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Thus salvation is indeed by God’s mercy, and not by man meeting His conditions for salvation. Rather, it is God who causes us to meet His conditions, as Augustine beautifully puts it:

“Can you say, ‘We will first walk in His righteousness, and will observe His judgments, and will act in a worthy way, so that He will give His grace to us’? But what good would you evil people do? And how would you do those good things, unless you were yourselves good? But Who causes people to be good? Only He Who said, ‘And I will visit them to make them good,’ and, ‘I will put my Spirit within you, and will cause you to walk in my righteousness, and to observe my judgments, and do them’ (Ezek.36:27). Are you asleep? Can’t you hear Him saying, ‘I will cause you to walk, I will make you to observe,’ lastly, ‘I will make you to do’? Really, are you still puffing yourselves up? We walk, true enough, and we observe, and we do; but it is God Who He makes us to walk, to observe, to do. This is the grace of God making us good; this is His mercy going before us.”
Augustine - Against Two Letters of the Pelagians, 4:15


26 posted on 12/02/2013 10:37:20 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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