Posted on 11/30/2013 8:18:51 PM PST by Salvation
The Birth of Jesus:
Comparing the Gospel Infancy Narratives
by Felix Just, S.J., Ph.D.
Introduction to Matthew 1–2 and Luke 1–2:
The birth of Jesus is narrated at the beginning of the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke, but is not mentioned in Mark, and alluded to very differently in John. Although the story may seem familiar, a close analysis shows that there are many significant differences between the Matthean and Lukan accounts, with hardly anything in common between them. The following are the only commonalities, and even these contain significant differences in the details:
Common Elements in Both Infancy Narratives:
Sorry but your religion can't take credit for it being tradition...It is written scripture revealed to the authors of the bible by the Holy Spirit...
Besides, tradition is not based on truth, or untruth...No one should rely on tradition alone, for anything...
It is not a Tradition, it's scripture...
Yer kiddin', right???
No one knows for sure, but there are hints as to what may have happened.
Ya think the Holy Spirit may have been aware of it??? How about Jesus, you think he knew??? I know for sure...
Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
We're having an online Catholic bible study and no one can figure out how the writers of the scriptures knew about the nativity??? WoW...
my question....unless all the stories of the birth of Jesus, the angelic choirs, the wise men, we three kings, the later circumcision of Jesus, his separation from His parents when He was preaching etc. etc. unless all these stories were passed on to the evangalists by either Mary or Joseph, how did they know that they happened....none of them were in Bethlehem when Jesus was born....how did they come to know that He was born in a stable????
Yer kiddin’, right???
No one knows for sure, but there are hints as to what may have happened.
Ya think the Holy Spirit may have been aware of it??? How about Jesus, you think he knew??? I know for sure...
terycarl, regarding my response in post 50 to your question, I recalled another instance when the mother of Jesus was with the apostles; at the wedding feast in Cana as described in John 2. They also spent a few days together in Capernaum after the wedding feast. The scriptures do not describe any conversations between Mary and the apostles, but I would imagine that, like many other mothers, she would have shared stories of Jesus as a child.
I must also make a correction to my statement that no one knows for sure. Iscool knows for sure.
However, a belief may be antagonistic to you personally but not be considered too antagonistic for an "ecumenical" type Religion Forum thread.
If you are personally offended by an RF "ecumenical" article, then send me a Freepmail, don't post anything on thread - and IGNORE the thread altogether.
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Matthew 1–2 (only 48 verses, including genealogy) |
Luke 1–2 (total of 132 verses, plus 16 more in genealogy) |
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1:1 - Title of the Gospel |
1:1-4 - Literary introduction to the Gospel |
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1:2-17 - The Genealogy of Jesus (from Abraham to King David to Exile to Joseph) |
(Genealogy included later, in Luke 3:23-38) |
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1:5-25 - Angel Gabriel announces John the Baptist’s birth |
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1:18-24 - An unnamed angel announces Jesus’ birth to Joseph in a dream |
1:26-38 - Angel Gabriel announces Jesus’ birth to Mary while awake |
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1:39-56 - Mary visits Elizabeth (incl. Mary's “Magnificat”) |
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1:57-58 - Elizabeth gives birth to her son (John the Baptist) |
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1:59-80 - John the Baptist is circumcised & named (incl. Zechariah's “Benedictus”) |
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2:1-5 - Joseph & Mary journey to Bethlehem for the census |
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1:25 & 2:1a - Mary’s son is born in Bethlehem of Judea, and named Jesus |
2:6-7 - Mary gives birth to her son in Bethlehem of Judea |
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2:8-14 - Angels appear to some shepherds (incl. the "Gloria" of the angels) |
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2:15-20 - Shepherds visit Mary & Joseph & the infant lying in a manger |
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2:21 - The infant is circumcised & named Jesus |
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2:22-38 - Jesus is presented to God in the Temple (incl. Simeon's "Nunc Dimittis") |
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2:1b-12 - Magi from the East come; they first visit Herod, then Jesus |
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2:13-21 - Joseph & Mary flee to Egypt with the child Jesus; |
- |
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2:22-23 - They journey to Nazareth |
2:39-40 - The family returns to Nazareth |
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2:41-52 - At age twelve, Jesus & his parents visit the Jerusalem Temple |
Click here for more detail on the structure of Luke's Infancy Narrative
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Matthew 1–2 |
Luke 1–2 |
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Driving Force: |
Hebrew Scriptures are fulfilled (1:22-23; 2:5-6, 15, 17-18, 23) |
Holy Spirit is at work (1:1, 35, 41, 67; 2:25-27) |
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Jesus' |
* Son of David, son of Abraham (1:1-17) |
* Son of God, son of Mary by the Holy Spirit (1:26-38) |
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Names |
* Messiah (1:1, 16-18; 2:4) |
* Jesus (1:31; 2:21) |
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Characters |
Men: King David, Joseph of Nazareth, Magi from the East, |
Women: Virgin Mary of Nazareth, Elizabeth, Anna |
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Themes: |
obstacles, conflict, fear, murder, politics |
glory, praise, joy; poverty, humility, faith |
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OT Parallels: |
Dreamer Joseph (Genesis 37–41) |
Birth of Samson (Judges 13) |
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Number |
[King] David = 14 (DVD = 4+6+4); |
70 weeks from Gabriel's first Annunciation to Presentation in Temple? |
The Word becoming flesh is not a thing that is done without ample notice and detail. Since God in Christ Jesus reconciles the world to Himself, He will not keep silent, but reveal Himself at just the right time, in just the right way, through just the right means, and will do so until the end of time as the Body of Christ is built up into the perfection that awaits all of creation, and for which the entire creation awaits eagerly.
That's right, I do...And there's million of bible believing Christians who know as well...The bible tells us how this happens...
God was there...He passed it on to the writers of the scriptures...
Old Testament Quotations and Allusions in Matthew's Infancy Narrative:
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Matthew's Gospel |
Old Testament Texts |
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Matt 1:3b-6a - [direct quotation of ten generations from Perez to David] |
Ruth 4:18-22 - [ten generations from Perez to David] |
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Matt 1:22-23 - All this took place to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: |
Isaiah 7:14 - "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel." |
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Matt 2:2 - [Magi ask Herod]: "Where is the child who has been born king of the Jews? For we observed his star at its rising, and have come to pay him homage." (cf. 2:8) |
Numbers 24:17-19 - "I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near-- a star shall come out of Jacob, and a scepter shall rise out of Israel; it shall crush the borderlands of Moab, and the territory of all the Shethites. / Edom will become a possession, Seir a possession of its enemies, while Israel does valiantly. / One out of Jacob shall rule, and destroy the survivors of Ir." |
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Matt 2:5-6 - [scribes tell King Herod where the Messiah will be born]: "In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it has been written by the prophet: / 'And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who is to shepherd my people Israel.'" |
Micah 5:2 - "But you, O Bethlehem of Ephrathah, who are one of the little clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to rule in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days." |
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Matt 2:11b - Then, opening their treasure chests, they offered him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. |
Isaiah 60:3, 6 - "Nations shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn... A multitude of camels shall cover you, the young camels of Midian and Ephah; all those from Sheba shall come. They shall bring gold and frankincense, and shall proclaim the praise of the LORD." |
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Matt 2:14-15 - Then Joseph got up, took the child and his mother by night, and went to Egypt, / and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet, "Out of Egypt I have called my son." |
Hosea 11:1 - "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son." |
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Matt 2:17-18 - Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah: / "A voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for her children; she refused to be consoled, because they are no more." |
Jeremiah 31:15 - "Thus says the LORD: A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are no more." |
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Matt 2:23 - There [in Galilee] he [Joseph] made his home in a town called Nazareth, so that what had been spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled, "He will be called a Nazorean." |
Isaiah 11:1 - "A shoot shall come out from the stump of Jesse, and a branch (nezer) shall grow out of his roots." |
Overview of the Contents of Luke 1—2:
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1:1-4 - Prologue: Literary Introduction to the Gospel |
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1:5-25 - Angel Gabriel appears to Zechariah to announce the birth of John (the Baptist) |
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1:26-38 - Angel Gabriel appears to Mary to announce the birth of Jesus (the “Annunciation”) |
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1:39-56 - Mary visits her cousin Elizabeth (the “Visitation”; incl. Mary's “Magnificat”) |
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1:57-58 - Elizabeth gives birth to her son (John the Baptist) |
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1:59-80 - 8th day: circumcision & naming of John the Baptist (incl. Zechariah's “Benedictus”) |
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2:1-5 - Joseph and Mary journey to Bethlehem |
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2:6-7 - Mary gives birth to her baby in Bethlehem of Judea (the “Nativity”) |
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2:8-14 - Angels appear to some shepherds (incl. the angels' “Gloria”) |
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2:15-20 - Shepherds visit Mary and Joseph and their infant |
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2:21 - 8th day: circumcision and naming of Jesus |
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2:22-38 - 40th day: Jesus is presented to God in the Jerusalem Temple (the “Presentation”) |
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2:39-40 - Jesus' family returns to Nazareth |
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2:41-52 - Twelve-year-old Jesus is found in the Temple (incl. Simeon's “Nunc Dimittis”) |
unless Mary or joseph, especially the revelation to Joseph that the Holy Spirit had impregnated Mary, were narrated to the evangalists, how would they have ever known them????All the birth and laid in a manger ...how could anyone have possible known that unless eitherMary or Joseph told them the story??
so.....somewhere along the line the Holy Spirit narrated to Luke his magnificant description of the Nativity?????????the singing angels, the shepherds, the wise men, the inn, the stable, the manger.....or perhape did Mary or Joseph narrate the story to him???Much later??
nonsense, it is not scripture, which is a written recotd of events....it is what happened day to day...these people were living beings and they said things, did things, believed things which were not necessarily written down, but were nonetheless practiced and followed...they were intelligent enough to bring these actions and beliefs down through the ages, hence tradition. Some of this is not in the bibble, but it is part of history and is almost as important.
The Gospels of Matthew and Luke contain two significantly different genealogies of Jesus:
Matthew 1:1-17 (NRSV)
1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham became the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers.
3 Judah became the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar. Perez became the father of Hezron, Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab. Amminadab became the father of Nahshon, Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab. Boaz became the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth. Obed became the father of Jesse,
6 Jesse the father of David the king. David became the father of Solomon, whose mother had been the wife of Uriah.
7 Solomon became the father of Rehoboam, Rehoboam the father of Abijah, Abijah the father of Asaph.
8 Asaph became the father of Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, Joram the father of Uzziah.
9 Uzziah became the father of Jotham, Jotham the father of Ahaz, Ahaz the father of Hezekiah.
10 Hezekiah became the father of Manasseh, Manasseh the father of Amos, Amos the father of Josiah.
11 Josiah became the father of Jechoniah and his brothers at the time of the Babylonian exile.
12 After the Babylonian exile, Jechoniah became the father of Shealtiel, Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abiud. Abiud became the father of Eliakim, Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok. Zadok became the father of Achim, Achim the father of Eliud,
15 Eliud the father of Eleazar. Eleazar became the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary. Of her was born Jesus who is called the Messiah.
17 Thus the total number of generations from Abraham to David is fourteen generations;
from David to the Babylonian exile, fourteen generations;
from the Babylonian exile to the Messiah, fourteen generations.
Compare Ruth 4:18-22 (containing the same names as in Matthew 1:3b-6a):
18 Now these are the descendants of Perez: Perez became the father of Hezron,
19 Hezron of Ram, Ram of Amminadab, 20 Amminadab of Nahshon, Nahshon of Salmon,
21 Salmon of Boaz, Boaz of Obed, 22 Obed of Jesse, and Jesse of David.
Luke 3:23-38 (NRSV)
23 When Jesus began his ministry he was about thirty years of age. He was the son (as was thought) of Joseph, the son of Heli,
24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai,
26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda,
27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri,
28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,
30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David,
32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon,
33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah,
34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah,
36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan,
38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Comparative Analysis:
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Matthew 1:1-17 |
Luke 3:23-38 |
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The genealogy of Jesus is at the very beginning of Matthew's Gospel, even before the infancy narrative. |
The genealogy of Jesus is not part of the infancy narrative, but comes just after his baptism and before his temptation in the wilderness. |
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A short introduction (v. 1) states the overall purpose of the genealogy: Jesus is called "Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham" - titles which stress Jesus' royal Jewish heritage. |
A brief introduction mentions Jesus' approximate age (v. 23a); the genealogy's purpose is implied by its placement just after the voice from heaven had declared: "You are my Son, the Beloved" (v. 22b) - which stresses Jesus' divine sonship. |
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The body of the genealogy (vv. 2-16) goes in chronological order. |
The body of the genealogy (vv. 23b-38) goes in reverse chronological order. |
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It begins with Abraham and goes down to Joseph and Mary, of whom Jesus was born. |
It begins with Jesus, and goes up through David and Abraham, all the way to Adam and God! |
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It traces Jesus' Davidic ancestry through David's son Solomon, who was also a king. |
It traces Jesus' Davidic ancestry through the prophet Nathan (cf. 2 Sam 7:2). |
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In addition to naming the fathers and sons, Matthew also includes some "extra information": three sets of brothers, five mothers, and several political circumstances (David "the king"; and the "Babylonian exile") |
Luke only lists the names of the men in the direct line from Jesus up to Adam (and God), without mentioning any mothers or extra information. |
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The genealogy's conclusion (v. 17) summarizes three sections of fourteen generations each, organized around three phases of the Davidic monarchy.
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Luke's genealogy simply ends, without any summary conclusion.
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In Hebrew gematria (a type of numerology very popular in ancient Judaism) the value of David's name, obtained by summing the value of its three consonants, is fourteen |
Luke's genealogy makes no use of Hebrew gematria. |
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The ten names from Perez down to David (Matt 1:3b-6a) are the same as in Ruth 4:18-22. |
The twenty-one names from Abraham up to Adam (Luke 3:34-38) are mostly the same as in Genesis 5:1-32 and 11:10-26. |
Genealogies in the Old Testament:
Closer Comparison of Matthew and Luke:
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Matthew 1:1-17 |
Luke 3:23-38 (in REVERSE order) |
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1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. |
When Jesus began his ministry he was about thirty years of age. |
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. |
38 God, Adam, Seth, Enos |
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2 Abraham became the father of Isaac, |
34b Isaac |
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Isaac the father of Jacob, |
34a Jacob |
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Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers. |
33f Judah |
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3 Judah became the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar. |
33e Perez |
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Perez became the father of Hezron, |
33d Hezron |
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Hezron the father of Ram, |
33c Arni, 33b Admin |
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4 Ram the father of Amminadab. |
33a Amminadab |
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Amminadab became the father of Nahshon, |
32e Nahshon |
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Nahshon the father of Salmon, |
32d Sala |
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5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab. |
32c Boaz |
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Boaz became the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth. |
32b Obed |
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Obed became the father of Jesse, |
32a Jesse |
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6 Jesse the father of David the king. |
31e David |
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David became the father of Solomon, whose mother had been the wife of Uriah. |
31d Nathan |
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7 Solomon became the father of Rehoboam, |
31c Mattatha |
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Rehoboam the father of Abijah, |
31b Menna |
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Abijah the father of Asaph. |
31a Melea |
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8 Asaph became the father of Jehoshaphat, |
30e Eliakim |
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Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, |
30d Jonam |
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Joram the father of Uzziah. |
30c Joseph |
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9 Uzziah became the father of Jotham, |
30b Judah |
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Jotham the father of Ahaz, |
30a Simeon; 29e Levi |
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Ahaz the father of Hezekiah. |
29d Matthat; 29c Jorim |
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10 Hezekiah became the father of Manasseh, |
29b Eliezer; 29a Joshua |
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Manasseh the father of Amos, |
28e Er; 28d Elmadam |
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Amos the father of Josiah. |
28c Cosam; 28b Addi |
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11 Josiah became the father of Jechoniah and his brothers at the time of the Babylonian exile. |
28a Melchi; 27e Neri |
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12 After the Babylonian exile, Jechoniah became the father of Shealtiel, |
27d Shealtiel |
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Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel, |
27c Zerubbabel |
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13 Zerubbabel the father of Abiud. |
27b Rhesa; 27a Joanan |
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Abiud became the father of Eliakim, |
26e Joda; 26d Josech |
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Eliakim the father of Azor, |
26c Semein; 26b Mattathias |
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14 Azor the father of Zadok. |
26a Maath; 25e Naggai |
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Zadok became the father of Achim, |
25d Esli; 25c Nahum |
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Achim the father of Eliud, |
25b Amos; 25a Mattathias |
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15 Eliud the father of Eleazar. |
24e Joseph; 24d Jannai |
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Eleazar became the father of Matthan, |
24c Melchi; 24b Levi |
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Matthan the father of Jacob, |
24a Matthat; 23c Heli |
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16 Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary. |
23b Joseph |
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Of her was born Jesus who is called the Messiah. |
23a Jesus |
OT Sources for the Genealogy from Adam to Abraham, in Luke's Version:
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Luke 3:34-38 |
Genesis 5:1-32 |
Genesis 11:10-26 |
1 Chron 1:1-4, 24-27 |
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38c Adam |
1-5 Adam |
. |
1a Adam |
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38b Seth |
3-8 Seth |
. |
1b Seth |
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38a Enos |
6-11 Enosh |
. |
1c Enosh |
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37e Cainan |
9-14 Kenan |
. |
2a Kenan |
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37d Mahalaleel |
12-17 Mahalalel |
. |
2b Mahalalel |
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37c Jared |
15-20 Jared |
. |
2c Jared |
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37b Enoch |
18-24 Enoch |
. |
3a Enoch |
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37a Methuselah |
21-27 Methuselah |
. |
3b Methuselah |
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36e Lamech |
25-31 Lamech |
. |
3c Lamech |
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36d Noah |
28-32 Noah |
. |
4a Noah |
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36c Shem |
32 Shem, Ham, Japheth |
10-11 Shem |
4bcd Shem, Ham, Japheth |
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36b Arphaxad |
. |
10-13 Arpachshad |
24ab Shem, Arpachshad |
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36a Cainan |
. |
[missing] |
[missing] |
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35e Shelah |
. |
12-15 Shelah |
24c Shelah |
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35d Eber |
. |
14-17 Eber |
25a Eber |
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35c Peleg |
. |
16-19 Peleg |
25b Peleg |
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35b Reu |
. |
18-21 Reu |
25c Reu |
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35a Serug |
. |
20-23 Serug |
26a Serug |
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34e Nahor |
. |
22-25 Nahor |
26b Nahor |
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34d Terah |
. |
24-26 Terah |
26c Terah |
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34c Abraham |
. |
26 Abram, Nahor, Haran |
27 Abram / Abraham |
Stories about the Four Mothers, in Matthew's Version:
We know the Holy Spirit was there thru the whole thing...We know the Holy Spirit was instructed to speak to the apostles/disciples about everything that happened...
Mary could have passed on what she knew and maybe not...Whatever credit we give to Mary is just a wild guess...
If only you could just once back that up with even a single piece of evidence...But you can't, never have and never will be able to...Any of your traditions passed on from the apostles/disciples during the first century is nothing but but a fable, without evidence...
If it wasn't for the written scriptures, you wouldn't have a clue what Jesus said or did...Or that he even really existed...
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