Notre Dame to host Catholic-Mormon conference

Notre Dame News ^ | November 27th, 2013 | Michael O. Garvey

[Elsie]

Are you actually saying that Psalms is talking about the Bible...is that what you're saying?

Have you actively been IGNORING what your Living Prophet has said about YOU???

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"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

[Elsie]

There have always been 15 with the exception being the time before someone is replaced because of death.

MORMON doctrine gets 'replaced at death' all the time.

Your avoidance of the matter shows your doubt.

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In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)     http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng

[Elsie]

When God speaks, His words are perfect.

You poor, deceived man...

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The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

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58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

[Elsie]

You should be more concerned with the prophets spoken of in Rev 11.

And yet YOU IGNORE your own living prophet.

Can a more accurate example of the word HYPOCRIT be found?

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It's going to happen as sure as the sun comes up in the east.

[Elsie]

BTW I find it interesting that you have chosen not to respond to Jim’s post.

YOU know he doesn't HAVE to!

But perhaps the LURKERS don't understand the TRAINING these Internet Missionaires go thru...

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Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

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Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

[Elsie]

"If you took away what the Prophet Joseph has contributed to that we wouldn’t know a lot.”

Heck; by KEEPING him; they don't know much; either!!

[Elsie]

Here's some thoughts you might want to consider.

Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

and here are some words you've ignored before:

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[Elsie]

The Prophet of the Church or President of Church is authorized to received revelation for the whole Church. The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are authorized as prophets, meaning they can prophesy as the Lord wants them too. But it will not be revelation that pertains to the Church as a whole. They are prophets, seers, and revelators as the Lord requires of them.

And they are VERY smart!!

NO one can fool THEM!!!!

Explained here

[Elsie]

John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

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1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 

 

1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 

 

1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

[Elsie]

... 5. and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

[Elsie]

I stand ready to receive any word God sends to me.

I'm channeling the talking ass for all it's worth; so I am VERY glad to see your statement here!

[Elsie]

How do you rectify this contradiction Storm Prepper? Are you in the position to nullify the Mormon scripture like y'all do for the Divine Bible?

You ignore what you cannot spin away; and then muddy the water with the rest of your doctrine.

[StormPrepper]

"For behold THIS LIFE is the time for men to prepare to meet God...do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life...then cometh the night of darkness wherein THERE CAN BE NO LABOR PERFORMED."

"How do you rectify this contradiction Storm Prepper? Are you in the position to nullify the Mormon scripture like y'all do for the Divine Bible?"

There is no contradiction at all. Alma is talking about procrastinating your repentance. People that know the law and have not committed to following it. He's not talking about people who have never received it before.

Alma is also not teaching lesson on the specifics of the eternities. Again, he's talking about repentance. This is why you need all scripture, not just a piece of it.

If you want to try to actually understand the eternities you have to look at D&C 76

D&C 76:
11 We, Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon, being ain the Spirit on the sixteenth day of February, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and thirty-two—

12 By the power of the aSpirit our beyes were opened and our understandings were enlightened, so as to see and understand the things of God—

20 And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the bright hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;

21 And saw the holy angels, and them who are sanctified before his throne, worshiping God, and the Lamb, who worship him forever and ever.

22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

72 Behold, these are they who died without law;

73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.

You don't really have anything like this level of understanding do you? hmmm...

Here's another you seriously consider...words of Jesus Himself.
D&C 19: 15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.

16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

Some good news for me btw, we broke ground last month on a new Church building in my area.It's just up the street from my house. We are very happy. And it was announced that a new Temple is being built just 7 miles away from my house. We're very excited about that for sure.

[reaganaut]

Ummm...’face to face’ is a Hebrew idiom, it does not mean God has a physical body like the LDS cult teaches.

There are reasons Mormons don’t study Greek and Hebrew - if they did they would leave like I did.

[boatbums]

There is no contradiction at all. Alma is talking about procrastinating your repentance. People that know the law and have not committed to following it. He's not talking about people who have never received it before.

The contradiction was regarding the doctrine you claimed was one of THE most important works Mormonism's god say you must do - be baptized for those who didn't get the message in their earthly life and that there would be "preaching" to those lost souls who died so that they get a "second chance". According to this Alma statement, your own scripture says, "For behold THIS LIFE is the time for men to prepare to meet God...do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life...then cometh the night of darkness wherein THERE CAN BE NO LABOR PERFORMED." Sure it is speaking of procrastinating repentance, but according to you, they STILL will get another chance to repent in the afterlife. I realize it is difficult for someone who is not uniquely inspired by the Holy Spirit to keep their theology all straight so that they don't mess up something they say somewhere else. This is but one example.

I understand the "eternities" as the Bible teaches them. Your challenge of understanding the "levels" like your religion imagines them do not intrigue me in the least. Jesus said that we are sanctified (set apart) by the truth and that God's word is the truth. You have no way to confirm that what your religion's founders have declared is also God's word is actually His word. God's word is TRUTH and His truth sets us apart from the world. Your scriptures go against the Bible and that is why I KNOW they are not from God. Like I have said many times already, if you cannot prove your doctrines by the Bible, then quoting your other so-called scriptures will be ignored.

[Elsie]

You ignore what you cannot spin away...

[Elsie]

Like I have said many times already, if you cannot prove your doctrines by the Bible, then quoting your other so-called scriptures will be ignored.

Um... not quite...

If your doctrines DISAGREE with the Bible, then quoting your other scriptures will put them up to a VERY high standard of scrutiny; PROVING just why they should be followed instead of what the BIBLE has clearly taught for centuries, and just WHY they should supersede the BIBLE now.

[StormPrepper]

"Ummm...’face to face’ is a Hebrew idiom, it does not mean God has a physical body like the LDS cult teaches.

And evangelical poster will argue that the Bible is complete and inerrant. That it stands alone and is God's only word to man. Yet on the same thread another evangelical will argue that you can't take the Bible at face value that you need to go back and read it in Greek and Hebrew.

Amazing how that happens when ever the text doesn't say what you want it to say.

Wasn't the Bible translated correctly?

Was this just a Hebrew idiom too?

3 John 1:14
14 But I trust I shall shortly see thee, and we shall speak face to face. Peace be to thee. Our friends salute thee. Greet the friends by name.

John didn't really mean face to face, is that it?

"if they did they would leave like I did."

1 Nephi 8:23
23 And it came to pass that there arose a mist of darkness; yea, even an exceedingly great mist of darkness, insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way, that they wandered off and were lost.

Those of us who rely totally on the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and personal revelation from our Father in Heaven don't lose our way.

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

‘Notre Dame to host Catholic-Mormon conference”

WHY?

[StormPrepper]

"be baptized for those who didn't get the message in their earthly life and that there would be "preaching" to those lost souls who died so that they get a "second chance"."

You've confused several principles here. In God's eyes, if they've never had a chance to hear the gospel before, it's not a second chance, but a first chance. God sees the living and the dead equally.

Unfortunately because you've limited your resources, there are several things missing in your understanding of the eternities. Everyone gets many chances to receive the gospel, the difference is, the reward that's received after the judgement is varied.

Eventually, every person that's ever lived on this earth will bow down and acknowledge Jesus as the one true Christ. But that doesn't change their eternal reward. All sin has to be paid for and eventually it will be. But that doesn't change the fact that those people that procrastinated their repentance will not be allowed into the kingdom of God after the judgement.

"I realize it is difficult for someone who is not uniquely inspired by the Holy Spirit to keep their theology all straight..."

Arrogance.

"I understand the "eternities" as the Bible teaches them.."

You have the writings of some of the prophets, but not the prophets themselves to explain what they meant. The only specifics you have are 1 Cor 15:40. And you're relying on your own interpretation for even that.

I've seen the ridiculous things people come up with to try to explain that one away too. That alone should be a big red flag to anyone that actually cares.

"You have no way to confirm that what your religion's founders have declared is also God's word is actually His word."

I most certainly do. I have the promise of God Himself to answer those that sincerely ask Him. I've put that promise to the test and received my answer. I have faith in Jesus Christ and I do my best to follow His commandments. I know that He guides me.

"Your scriptures go against the Bible and that is why"

No. They go against -your- interpretation of the Bible. In reality they go hand in hand with Bible to teach us the truth God would have us know in this life.

"Like I have said many times already, if you cannot prove your doctrines by the Bible, then quoting your other so-called scriptures will be ignored."

I don't have to prove anything. I will quote what matters to me. If you ignore them then that's your choice.

1 Peter 3:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1 Peter 4:
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead,

Also, I can let the text stand on it's own. I don't have to turn it into something incomprehensible and illogical to keep a house of cards propped up.