[fishtank]

[fishtank]

Has anyone here read this yet?

I was doing an AMazon search on Wayne Grudem, and this popped up.

p.s. This also relates to Wayne Grudem’s teachings and beliefs that were a subject of discussion at John MacArthur’s “Strange Fire” conference.

[fishtank]

the artwork seems to be a painting of Agabus....

[chesley]

Wher was Agabus in error, exactly?

[fishtank]

Artwork ...

“Agabus’s prophesy
concerning Paul
by Gerard Hoet, 1728”

[Alex Murphy]

This book examines Dr. Wayne Grudem's controversial teaching on fallible prophecy in view of various lexical, exegetical, and historical points of analysis. It also addresses the teaching's popularity and continuing advancement through many charismatics within the "New Calvinism" movement. The doctrine of fallible prophecy is neither benign nor harmless, rather it constitutes a troubling strange fire for the body of Christ and continues to spread through the advocacy of popular continuationists like Wayne Grudem, D.A. Carson, John Piper, and Mark Driscoll:

News to me. Ping for later

[unlearner]

Thanks for posting this. I do not follow this closely but am wondering if this means there is a parting of ways between preacher / theologians like John MacArthur and John Piper. I know they both identify as Calvinistic and have worked together in the past.

I would like to learn more about traditional Calvinistic theology and writings as I have found many proponents of this view do not seem to line up with scripture. However, I never heard MacArthur or Piper promoting these particular errors though they identify as Calvinistic. My study has been limited to the Bible on these topics. I have wondered for a long time if the problem is that some of Calvin’s views are being misrepresented or misunderstood.

Wish I had more time to explore and study this.

[Shery]

I started watching Strange Fire messages from John McArthur, but after the 4th, I was done. It has become more legalism. Not only that, but he brushes EVERY single so-called charismatic church with the same brush of error. It’s just not so. Some of his tenets directly contradicted what Paul said in I Corinthians. While I do believe we can put too much emphasis on the gifts and not the Giver, I do believe that God does use those gifts today in places where the Gospel is beginning to make inroads. (3rd world countries, etc.) It validates the Biblical record. While I agree that so much of what we see today IS ERROR, outright and easy to prove Biblically, I feel that one cannot totally deny the gifts. What we see in American charismatic churches, for the most part, is error. But there are some good churches who have kept their doctrine pure and they are good Bereans...examining the Scriptures to see if a doctrine be false or True. You cannot call ALL charismatic churches false.

[GeronL]

All Biblical prophets but Jesus were fallible

[Jim Noble]

Here’s my personal view: the God who revealed Himself to the Hebrews and who sacrificed His son to save the world is NOT the God of Calvin.

[mjbfr]

Dear fishtank - I saw your posting and wanted to offer a few details concerning your inquiry. First of all, the expression “New Calvinism” represents a new and growing movement that is mostly populated (though not exclusively) by those who are continuationist/charismatic in their understanding of the “sign gifts,” i.e., tongues, prophecy, gifts of healing etc. This particular book examines the question as to whether the church still has prophets who speak divine revelation in the modern day. The advocates of “fallible prophecy” would argue that we do have prophets in the modern day - but that they are fallible in their proclamations, unlike the prophets of the Old Testament era. Thus, the historic tests for prophetic veracity and infallibility (Deut. 13:1-5 & 18:20-22) do not apply to the NT prophets of the modern day according to the advocates of fallible prophecy. Thus, a modern “fallible prophet” might approach other Christians and utter their “revelation” from God, but it will be fraught with corruption and error - however, the supposed “prophet” is still considered to be valid. As a part of their position, the advocates of FP argue that the prophet Agabus was in error when he uttered his prophecy in Acts 21:11. Such an accusation is entirely new within the span of church history, but it is central for the contemporary doctrine of “fallible prophecy.” The destructive potential that comes with such an innovation of the doctrine of prophecy is difficult to estimate, but the book addresses some of the concerns which attend the philosophy of fallible prophecy. I hope that this helps in some manner -

We will keep the book at amazon’s lowest available price ($0.99) for some time - we simply want people to get exposure to this crucial and troubling issue. As well, here is a link to a free sample to the book:
http://www.thearmouryministries.org/tfponc.html

Blessings in Christ
mjbeasley

[woofie]