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To: xzins
It's a good and positive law and rule, and has nothing whatsoever to do with Nazis....only with drunks.

Then Obamacare is also the LAW of the land. Why are we fighting it?

115 posted on 11/26/2013 4:12:16 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie; P-Marlowe; Alamo-Girl; metmom; wmfights; JSteff; narses; Jim Robinson; onyx; jazusamo; ...
From a Biblical standpoint, when is drunkenness reached?

This is the title of the thread. I gave a biblical answer.

Your broader question is really that of the Founders when they decided to launch the revolution. They found it necessary to publish a treatise on the subject of when that biblical admonition to obey government is superceded. That document is the Declaration of Independence.

Prior to that, however, the Bible itself contains instructions regarding the same thing.

1. Jesus said to "Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's." In other words, whenever Caesar tries to take the place of God, then your allegiance is to God. Up to that point you obey the laws of the land.

2. Romans 13 is the clearly stated Christian position on government.

3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

There are two guiding principles for GODLY government:

1. It is to do GOOD.

2. It is to punish WRONGDOERS.

Our Founders wrote that the government of England had forsaken these God-given principles and had instead been doing the opposite: injuring the Good and rewarding the Bad.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--

It is clear that from the Bible, and from a our own Godly example of overthrowing the despotism of King George, that the German people should have struggled against the perverse despotism of Hitler's Nazism. Some did, but not many at all.

However, one cannot equate our government's definition of drunk driving based on a blood-alcohol content as the equivalent of despotic Nazism. INSTEAD, preventing vehicular homicide by defining blood/alcohol drunkenness is entirely within the realm of Godly government: (1) It is pursuing good, and (2) it is punishing wrongdoing.

Your question about ObamaCare must be taken in the context of our being a representative republican form of government. As the Founders wrote,

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

First, we have mechanisms at our disposal -- far short of revolution -- to change ObamaCare and, hopefully, to be entirely rid of it. So, not only is it possible to change, WE have the freedom to participate peacefully in that change BY THE VERY NATURE OF OUR OWN form of government. In other words, we don't have to overthrow government to change government. We don't have to ignore God and Romans 13 to change government, because our government is designed with its own built in change mechanism.

NEXT, there are serious concerns about death panels, subjugation of the people, and ObamaCare being a possible pathway to despotism for socialists who have infiltrated our free system of government. I agree with those concerns. If that despotism were to become so destructive of freedom that Godly people would question the legitimacy of such government, then we DO HAVE the biblical right to overthrow that government. And, at such a time we should pursue it.

FWIW, it is a strong likelihood that Jesus was celebrating Purim in John 5. Purim was the celebration of the Jews' destroying a minority Persian government that had designed their extermination. And Jesus celebrated it, too.

123 posted on 11/26/2013 5:44:33 AM PST by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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