Which one(s) do not ?
ALL scripture is given ..... snip ..... for instruction in righteousness.
The cool thing about Christianity is that it is a “spirit of the law” rather than “letter of the law” sort of thing.
They didn’t have breathalizer’s back then. I’ll add that you know when you are “drunk” vs slightly feeling it. I figure it is somewhere between the two but towards the latter. It’s also a frame of mind. If you are feeling it, do you down another couple shots of tequila? And, frankly, why are you doing shots in the first place when the only reason for them is getting drunk?
I like to sip bourbon, scotch, tequila and even good vodka. But I limit myself to a shot an hour.
From personal experience, the third tequila shot.
Wow, seems to me you are conflating a number of issues.
First, the issue of adult beverages.
Second, the issue of once saved, always saved, really EVER saved, etc.
Third, church fellowhip, etc.
On the first, I would say that the “first miracle” more or less does away with any idea that teetotaling is scriptural.
On the second, I mean, it is a heart thing, and who are we to know about others?
On the third, a totally different deal altogether.
When the mother of Jesus said “Son, they have no wine”, at the Cana wedding feast, did He reply,
“Mom, it’s good thing they ran out before there’s too much drunkenness. I wouldn’t contribute to making the situation any worse.”
Instead, Jesus willed His first miracle recorded in Scripture, and when the chief steward tasted the water changed to wine, he called the bridegroom over & criticized his saving the best wine for last when the guests were too inebriated to taste the difference.
At the Last Supper, Jesus took the cup filled with wine and gave thanks........
Kinda difficult to insist that it was all only grape juice.
When it causes an inability to serve others and oneself according to the will of God.
Yes - it is obvious from the text that some drinking of “wine” is a given. IMHO, it boils down to the question of where is your heart (what gives you pleasure)?
Imagine dying of thirst in the desert and you find a cool clear well. But then instead of drinking deeply, you grab a nearby spade and dig and scratch in the dirt, trying to suck some life-giving moisture of of the dry dust. This what God calls EVIL:
“...for my people have committed two evils: they have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters, and hewed out cisterns for themselves, broken cisterns that can hold no water.” Jeremiah 2:13
I thinks C.S. Lewis put it best:
“It would seem that Our Lord finds our desires not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.” C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory.
When you stop being a happy drunk.
I have heard it described as: "The water beheld its Creator, and blushed."
As has been mentioned here, all sin should be avoided. The Bible mentions that alcohol can lead to debauchery in other areas because our minds are dulled and our inhibitions lowered. There are many Biblical references about alcohol. Here is are just two:
I Peter 4:3. "For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries."
Luke 12: 42 - 46 "The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.5 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers."
I think Christ is saying we should not take our eye off the ball - that being prepared for His coming. Drinking to excess does that. But, He does forgive when we ask Him to. I can tell when certain of my behaviors take me out of fellowship with Him. The Holy Spirit convicts us.
I have known many people who, while they might not drink, they have the sin of gossip. They feel they are doing nothing at all wrong discussing the sins of others, and to them, it seems to give them great pleasure to point out the sins of others.
All answers to life's questions are found in the Bible. If we meditate on the Word of God, we cannot help but be changed by that act.
My wife’s grandfather could drink one glass of wine, and he would have to be carried to bed. I can drink a double Scotch and water, and remain perfectly sensible, which I believe is the standard Christians need to adhere to, keeping their wits about them. A number of Irish Christians might have another take on the subject, and I’ll leave it to them to work out a path between pub and church.
The body is the Temple of the Lord. When have you defiled the Temple?
When the state law in effect says that you are. The bible says “obey every law and ordinance of man.”
Somewhere between a buzz and a spew. Each person is different.
I’ve seen people get drunk on three Oklahoma 3.2 beers, and others it does not affect at all.
Even after the Second coming, all of humanity still has another Millennium's worth of sanctification left before we can possibly be sinless.
The "out of fellowship" term is a very precise description of our relationship to God as believers, when we sin after having once placed faith alone in Christ alone. Even after we are saved, we find we still sin, even when we fully intend otherwise. This manifests the distinction between the old man and the new man.
Repentance doesn't mean turning away from disobedience to the law. It means changing our thinking back towards facing God through faith in what Christ provided us on the Cross.
To the meat of the question...
All of our walk is focused upon our thinking, though the body and flesh are involved in how He has made us a Temple for Him.
The first problem with alcohol and drunkenness, is our ability to perceive and then to discern our state of intoxication is the first thing impaired by drunkenness.
The work of God in us thrives on our ability in the human spirit and our soul to think through faith in Him.
When we imbibe to the pint of drunkenness, we fail to place our faith on Him and how He has made us, but instead upon ourselves and our work independent of Him.
There also are admonishments for preaching while intoxicated.
“The best thing to do is avoid alcohol altogether.”
Jesus didn’t think so. He drank wine & made large quantities for already-inebriated partygoers.
It’s really not that hard to know where your own intoxication line is, and to choose to not go over it.
Tell it to Jesus, who turned water into wine at a wedding.
Anything else is legalism.
Usually when you see the word “drunk” in this context in the bible a better translation would be “drunkard”. It is almost always in a continuing, persistent tense.
Couldn't agree more. The problem is that some mean saved but not living a life that testifies to Christ's indwelling presence, and some mean not saved.
If a person is in sin, claims to be saved, then someone should follow the scriptures and go to that person and tell them that they need to repent. If they refuse, then take a second person, (an elder of the church). If they refuse to repent, let the local body of believers they belong to decide to tell them that they refuse to repent and are thus disfellowshipped. Sure, they can still come to that church church, but they (as Jesus said) would be treated like a heathen man.
And so, if that youth pastor person ultimately refused to repent... in the end, was he never truly saved to begin with? And if so, how could they he duped the church for so long?
Maybe. Maybe not. That's God's decision.
What we are called to do is not judge whether he was saved or not, but treat him as if he weren't. There's a difference.
IOM, that would disqualify him from serving in office at a church. It would also mean urging him into reconciliation with God.
I like the way that is stated in 2 Corinthians because it has universal application. Regardless of where the person stands with God, they are urged to be made right with him.
For the unbeliever, that would be encouraging him to get saved. For the believer, it would be encouraging him to deal with sin in his life and go into a deeper walk with Christ.