Examine Yourselves Whether You Be in the Faith, Part 1

GTY.org ^ | September 24, 1978 | John MacArthur

[redleghunter]

Paul calls for an examination in another passage and I want you to notice this. It's the last chapter of II Corinthians, Chapter 13, and verse 5, I want you to note what it says, Il Corinthians 13:5, just the first sentence, "'Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; (prove it, is what he's saying) prove yourselves." You say to someone "are you a Christian?" 'Yes.' What do you base that on? 'Well so many years ago I made a decision.' That means nothing. The Bible never verifies anybodies salvation on the basis of the past, It's always on the basis of the present, And if you don't have the evident proof of real salvation in your life now, there's a very real possibility you're not a Christian at all, no matter what happened in the past. So examine yourself, to se whether you are in the faith prove yourself. You say John' how do do that? How do I know if I'm really a Christian? I believe! (Maybe you've even been baptized.) I go to church, I, think I'm a Christian.' Look with me Matthew Chapter 5 and let's find out. When Jesus had arrived on the scene, the Jews had already decided what right-living was all about. They had already built their own code. They had already developed their own system, and they had it pretty cu and dried and pretty well laid out that this is what it was to be holy, and it was all external, it was all self-righteousness and works, and Jesus came and shattered that thing and He said I want to give you a new standard for living.

[smvoice]

I’ve heard it said before that people are going to be SHOCKED at who is in the rapture...and who is NOT.. I agree with that.

[roamer_1]

Thanks! Having read this previously, I am still impressed that this is very close to the Gospel originally given. The proofs to me, are in the essence though - that 'sin' and 'iniquity' have no meaning without the Torah, and that Yeshua actually presented a more strict interpretation of the Torah (the thought in the mind is every bit as bad as taking the action)... so the onus upon the Christian is necessarily harder on the Christian (having been given that directive as a disciple), albeit that we can throw away the interpretations in the tradition of the rabbis. What is sin, if not the transgression of the Torah? And Yeshua made it more so, not less.

I believe I have said before that the Hebrew sense of 'believe' is to 'hear and do', and 'easy-believism', as you have put it, eliminates the 'do' part, having left the Torah, and resigning 'sin' to something defined ethereally by men, rather than by the only definition that there is, or ever can be. And the believer is left without any proof, any gauge, to see how he is doing, or even an inkling that he should be proving his faith.

An excellent, excellent sermon!

[metmom]

I think the overarching point is if the inside is dirty one won’t care what the outside looks like.

Interesting thing is, I have an acquaintance who, by the charismatic standards, is *saved*. She professes to love God and had some kind of experience. She's spoken in tongues, gotten slain in the Spirit, and all that.

And God has honestly delivered her from alcohol.

However, she went back to it and in the more than year that I've known her, has made no progress spiritually.

She's one person who, although God clearly did something for her, I am really beginning to question if she's really saved.

Not because she still struggles. But she isn't evidencing the real kind of changed heart you would expect. Yes, she does want to be freed from her problems but seems to see God as the mechanism for that but does not seem to have a desire to KNOW Him.

[metmom]

Well said! I shuddered when I read that as I thought about the doubt he could be putting in the hearts of any new Christians who think they all at once would be “holy” and “righteous” in their own eyes in order to be saved. How many would just walk away thinking they must have been “unworthy”?

That would have been me at one time.

Some *spiritual giant* like him saying that, that's the conclusion I would have come to, and I likely would have given up trying.

That only leads to torment and doubt. Not what God wants for His children, I daresay.

I know better now, as a mature Christian, but as a new believer, that could be very damaging.

[CynicalBear]

>>Did he make up his own list? Will have to look at it again.<<

No he didn’t. I know I seem to be walking a thin line here but really want to get across that Christians who examine themselves expecting an outward “holiness” or “righteousness”, whatever that may mean to them are going to fall short. What then? Do they walk away thinking they were never saved? Doubting ones salvation isn’t from God it seems to me.

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24)

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"

If our “faith is reckoned as righteousness” why are we to “examine ourselves” other than to ask for strength of faith?

[CynicalBear]

Those legalists and Old Testament external law keepers can take a hike as far as I’m concerned. Rightly dividing tells me Paul taught the New Covenant for today rather well.

It was so stark to me the other day when I watched those two videos you pointed me to metmom. The first was from the conference the second was the pastor. The pastor nailed it and my spirit soared. It was long past my bedtime but I couldn't stop watching untill the end.

[metmom]

That was an awesome video, IMO.

[redleghunter]

Indeed. We all spend time here on LP defending the Biblically sound Grace by faith. I don’t think JM who many call a Calvinist is peddling a different gospel. He is pointing out what Paul, James, John and Peter tell us, which is to examine ourselves. We are not discussing how one is saved, but how one who is saved obeys his Master.

The RCs stereotype us as antinomians. It is a false accusation. JM is giving a sermon on dead faith. It is very Biblical and SHOULD make us feel uneasy. It is not that we examine ourselves externally or internally to see if we are meriting salvation...May it never be! We examine ourselves as washed in the Blood of Christ Kingdom citizens. For me it has to do with pleasingly Him and what pleases Him is to obey Him because we love Him.

We are the pound puppies. Saved from the dog catchers needle of death, the pound puppy wants to please his master who saved him.

[redleghunter]

Amen, and I think the sermon points out we should be pointing in the right direction. Thus my military example of the compass. Before we are saved our compass points to the south pole. When we are Sovereignly led to repentance and are saved the Holy Spirit gives us a new heading to True north. Jesus is at the helm and we obey His orders on maintaining the sail and deck.

[Iscool]

And I heard a fellow say the other day, and he was preaching, and he said, "isn't it wonderful that you can come to Jesus Christ and you don't have to change anything on the inside or the outside." That's a lie right out of hell. There better be a transformation.

I don't buy into that and I don't believe the author of the bible does either...This fella seems to have some troube with the definition of repentance...

When I came to Jesus, ask for his salvation, I didn't change a thing...I just know some sort of short lived peace came over me...I was in bad shape...Jesus was my very last resort...

The following night I was still in just as bad a shape...Got out and was just riding around looking for a bar to get drunk in...A little bit in the distance I saw the lights of a church...Something told me I needed to be there...That quick...Had no idea of the denomination

I was plenty nervous but parked the truck and thought I could just sneak in without anyone seeing me...

Nope...No such luck...Turned out to be a Pentecostal church...The second I broke the door, there were a dozen people there hugging me and telling me Jesus loves me and that hit a nerve...I needed to know that...

After that, I didn't change a thing...I continued to hit the bars...That's where my friends were...

Wasn't long before I noticed I wasn't ordering alcohol but drinking Coke...I'd still be sober at the end of the night...

That wasn't the first change...The first one was that I found myself with the weirdest desire to look thru a bible...

It wasn't long after that that I started talking to the drunk people in the bars about God...Shortly after that, I lost any desire to go to bars at all...

The point is, when one comes to Jesus, God will make the change within you...

[Iscool]

Well said! I shuddered when I read that as I thought about the doubt he could be putting in the hearts of any new Christians who think they all at once would be “holy” and “righteous” in their own eyes in order to be saved. How many would just walk away thinking they must have been “unworthy”?

Exactly...Salvation is as easy as falling off a chair...This guys makes it sound pretty difficult...And not all that desirable...

[redleghunter]

Awesome testimony. Thanks. Great example of the Holy Spirit transforming a life. What I think JM was getting at. I think we deal too much with the “purgatory posse” here on FR that such a sermon puts us on the defensive.

[Friendofgeorge]

I did read it, I gave my opinion. yes I sidetracked a little bit in my response/

Not at all familiar with JM, I found it awfully long, I am not great with posts that long

I guess in response I would want to add .....Salvation is a free gift of God.

We are saved by grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast

Not suggesting the author did not agree with that, just that I like to keep it simpler

[boatbums]

Some of what I hear from MacArthur sure sounds like what was called "Lordship Salvation". I think he has skated too close to that line many times and comes across as implying a works-based salvation rather than sanctification being a lifelong process for a believer that starts with receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and believing in him. Repentance means to "change your mind" and not to "turn from sin" as is often expressed by preachers like him. If we believe that grace is what saves us through faith, then that is the only way we can be saved and never because of righteous deeds that we do. It's ALL grace.

I think the reason why some preachers talk like he does is they are afraid of being accused of preaching "easy believism" - the idea that we just walk forward at an altar call, say we believe in Jesus and then, that's it, we go to heaven when we die and God doesn't care how we live until then. Of course, NOBODY really teaches that, it's a rhetorical extremist device to get people to back away from the truth of grace and lean towards works AND faith being required to be saved. We shouldn't be pressured into falling into that trap - and it IS a trap.

Instead, we should do as Paul said - through the Holy Spirit, of course - that a genuine faith WILL result in a life that is moved to do the works God has prepared for us to do. It is a realization that the old, godless, sinful life no longer holds the attraction it once did. We find that, the closer we move towards God, the less sin appeals to us and we start to see that we really HAVE had something change deep within us. Before we came to Christ, sin's temptation was hard to resist, but after, we find we HAVE power now to be able to resist sin and what once appealed to us now repulses us and we feel shame over past sins. THAT, I believe, is the evidence that we ARE born again. The Holy Spirit within us bears witness to our spirit that we are the children of God.

Do we wake up the next day after giving our life to Christ completely changed into a perfect, sinless person? Not usually, at least most people won't but there WILL be change - with some faster to reach holy living than others. Even Paul, twenty five years after his experience on the road to Damascus said that he STILL faced a spiritual tug of war between his old sin nature and his new spirit nature and that it was through the strength of Jesus Christ that he could prevail over sin. That, through Christ, he could do all things. I think the very fact that we are experiencing this going on in our lives is proof that we ARE His sheep and that we ARE His redeemed and WILL be in heaven when we die.

[boatbums]

I know how this is coming across sounding, but I do think there needs to be more coming along side someone who is struggling. Not to condone the sin but to encourage. It’s the speck and the log thingie. Encourage the weak.

Yes, encouraging those who are weak among us and not being a stumbling block to them, either. Sometimes we do that in the name of legalism. The part where we are exhorted to not be a cause of someone tripping up had to do with the liberty we have in Christ (i.e., drinking wine, eating the meat that had been offered to false gods, etc.) in I Corinthians 8, but also in Romans 14, we are told:

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. (Romans 14:1)

Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval. Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. (Romans 14:13-19)

There comes a time where we have to just trust the Holy Spirit to work what needs to happen in a brother or sister in the Lord's life. We can only take our discipling responsibilities so far and then step back, pray for them, be a good example and be there when they need you, and trust that God has them in the palm of His hands, never to lose them, cast them away, forsake them or let them be plucked out - even if they try to themselves.

[metmom]

What I think JM was getting at. I think we deal too much with the “purgatory posse” here on FR that such a sermon puts us on the defensive.

Coming out of Catholicism, yeah, I'd have to say that he does sound too close to Catholicism for my comfort. That's the issue I have even with the Reformed. it comes across as too sterile and harsh.

[metmom]

You mailed it, as usual.

Thanks for putting into words what I was trying to say.

[metmom]

Psalm 103:8-14 The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. He will not always chide, nor will he keep his anger forever. He does not deal with us according to our sins, nor repay us according to our iniquities.

For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us. As a father shows compassion to his children, so the Lord shows compassion to those who fear him.

For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust.

[cva66snipe]

Same here. It’s really, really sad that people feel more welcome in a bar than they do in many churches. I loved country song where the guy went to church and ended up sitting outside.

The Outlaws Prayer by Johnny Paycheck most likely from what you are saying.

Another artist as liberal as can be wrote or sang two songs that IMO are two great sermons in just over three minutes. The guy is Kris Kristofferson. He wrote and sang Why Me aka {Why Me Lord} the other was actualy written by Larry Gatlin and sang by both him and Kristofferson called "Help Me". Then I stop and think about another song Kristofferson did called The Pilgrim Chapter 33 which at one point without GOD's intervention could have been my outcome.

Another good sermon in a song IMO is "America Again" by Carmen. If I could name one country artist album that has goten me through many years of different challanges I would have to say Willie Nelson's "Troublemaker" album. It's the one I learned to play six string by. IMO it's his best work. I also like an album Emmylou Harris and Ricky Skaggs did called Roses in the snow namely three songs on it. The Darkest Hour, Green Pastures, and Jordon which also has Johnny Cash.

[redleghunter]

Instead, we should do as Paul said - through the Holy Spirit, of course - that a genuine faith WILL result in a life that is moved to do the works God has prepared for us to do. It is a realization that the old, godless, sinful life no longer holds the attraction it once did. We find that, the closer we move towards God, the less sin appeals to us and we start to see that we really HAVE had something change deep within us.

Excellent comments sister...all of them. When I read the full sermon I did not come back with the impression JM was saying we would be perfect "walkers" in His Way right away or ever until we are glorified. I think his point was the compass has to be pointed in the right direction.

Again, your response speaks volumes on your walk with Christ.