Examine Yourselves Whether You Be in the Faith, Part 1

GTY.org ^ | September 24, 1978 | John MacArthur

[redleghunter]

Paul calls for an examination in another passage and I want you to notice this. It's the last chapter of II Corinthians, Chapter 13, and verse 5, I want you to note what it says, Il Corinthians 13:5, just the first sentence, "'Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; (prove it, is what he's saying) prove yourselves." You say to someone "are you a Christian?" 'Yes.' What do you base that on? 'Well so many years ago I made a decision.' That means nothing. The Bible never verifies anybodies salvation on the basis of the past, It's always on the basis of the present, And if you don't have the evident proof of real salvation in your life now, there's a very real possibility you're not a Christian at all, no matter what happened in the past. So examine yourself, to se whether you are in the faith prove yourself. You say John' how do do that? How do I know if I'm really a Christian? I believe! (Maybe you've even been baptized.) I go to church, I, think I'm a Christian.' Look with me Matthew Chapter 5 and let's find out. When Jesus had arrived on the scene, the Jews had already decided what right-living was all about. They had already built their own code. They had already developed their own system, and they had it pretty cu and dried and pretty well laid out that this is what it was to be holy, and it was all external, it was all self-righteousness and works, and Jesus came and shattered that thing and He said I want to give you a new standard for living.

[CyberAnt]

And .. “conversion” meaning SALVATION.

SALVATION MEANS: Safety, soundness, preservation, healing, deliverance and prosperity.

[smvoice]

"Probably"?? Isn't that speculation? Why speculate when God gives us the answer? That's what NOT rightly dividing God's Word of Truth DOES: causes us to SPECULATE.

Why not make Paul one of the 12? Did Paul consider himself to be part of that group or did he consider himself DIFFERENT?

"Yet God chooses him to do His work".

Just what work did God choose Paul to do? Was it the same as Peter and the 11? After all, Jesus Christ said to Peter and the 11 in the great commission to go and teach ALL NATIONS. That would have included Gentiles. Why after Mathias was chosen, would there be a need to raise up another Apostle, Paul? Would he not have been duplicating what was already given to the 12?

[smvoice]

Luke 24. Yes it says that Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day. And that REPENTANCE for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, BEGINNING FROM JERUSALEM.

Not only does this NOT say that CHRIST WOULD DIE FOR OUR SINS, it also DOES SAY THIS: REPENTANCE would be the basis for FORGIVENESS OF SINS. NOT THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

In order to get the Gospel of the Grace of God by this, you would be FORCED to READ INTO, SPECULATE, what it SHOULD SAY. NOT WHAT IT DOES SAY. Do you want to speculate on every single Scripture you give, or do you want to actually READ what is WRITTEN? God wrote it, not me.

As far as your research is going, you would be better served to research God's Word, rightly divided, than man's writings.

God has SPOKEN to us and His words are recorded in a book HE has preserved for us. Through studying His book we can KNOW the truth about His plan and purpose for creation.

But we must study it GOD'S WAY. Has God GIVEN us a way He wants us to study His Word?

2 Tim. 2:15: "STUDY to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Since God through the APostle Paul TELLS us to "rightly divide" His word, it would be appropriate to allow God through Paul to tell us how this should be done. Don't you think? Because if we don't, SPECULATION is all we will have. And we WILL be ashamed as workmen for Him. He doesn't tell us to read the opinions of other men, He doesn't tell us we cannot know, He gives us a clear concise way to recognize the divisions and distinctions that HE HIMSELF has placed there.

[redleghunter]

The key there to your post is “deliverance.” That is the whole story of the OT and NT.

[redleghunter]

My point was our minds are not His Mind. God chose Paul to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles and he also preached it to the Jews. My other point is we should not read into it more than what is there.

[smvoice]

But the POINT is, the MIND of GOD HAS been given to us regarding these matters. He SHOWS us HOW to understand WHAT HE HAS SAID. There is no NEED to “read into it more than what is there”, IF what is there is READ and not speculated on. Searching the Scriptures is HOW we know WHAT God DESIRES us to know.

[smvoice]

So, I'll ask again: If Paul was given the same Great Commission as the 12, and he was part of that group of Apostles, why the need for Paul, since Peter and the 11 were ALREADY told to go to all nations?

If Paul was part of the 12, where will he sit in the Kingdom when the 12 are sitting on thrones with Christ, judging the 12 Tribes of Israel (Matt.19:28)?? Will Paul just pull up a stool and sit with them? Will Paul even HAVE a throne or a stool in the Kingdom?

THese are all questions that NEED to be answered if you believe Paul was counted with Peter and the 11. And that he shared the same commission as Peter and the 11. IF he shared the same commission, and he was an Apostle, then he should be sitting on a throne with them in the Kingdom. Right?

[redleghunter]

Not only does this NOT say that CHRIST WOULD DIE FOR OUR SINS, it also DOES SAY THIS: REPENTANCE would be the basis for FORGIVENESS OF SINS. NOT THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

Words and Actions are given as evidence in all Scriptures.

Luke 24:

“Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things.

I posted this again, because I highlighted a very important point. The disciples were witnesses to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. They were witnesses to His shed Blood, the pierced hands and feet and pierced side where the spear cut Him. They and all the Jews preached the Gospel on Pentecost and beyond knew that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins as we see in Hebrews 9:

18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. 19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you.” 21 And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood. 22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Therefore, when Peter shouts out in Acts 2 the following:

22 “Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— 23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. 24 But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.

Everyone in attendance, who were Jews, fully understood Blood was shed for the remission of sins. They knew what sacrifice was about, they knew there had to blood, they knew that when people were executed by crucifixion there was blood shedding. What many of them did not probably understand was the resurrection. I will note Peter spent a lot of words explaining that from the scriptures.

So the Blood of Christ was presented in Acts 2 and Acts 3. In Acts 3 Peter makes a plea for those assembled to hear from the prophets:

“And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. 18 But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.

And of course we know what Peter was referring to here; and we know the assembled Jews knew what Peter was referring to here as well. It is the following, which portrays the shedding of Blood from the Suffering Servant:

Isaiah 53:

Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. 3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.

7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land of the living For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due? 9 His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.

10 But the Lord was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand. 11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.

[redleghunter]

Since God through the APostle Paul TELLS us to "rightly divide" His word, it would be appropriate to allow God through Paul to tell us how this should be done. Don't you think? Because if we don't, SPECULATION is all we will have. And we WILL be ashamed as workmen for Him. He doesn't tell us to read the opinions of other men, He doesn't tell us we cannot know, He gives us a clear concise way to recognize the divisions and distinctions that HE HIMSELF has placed there.

I think it is speculation to present "rightly dividing the word" to mean there were two gospel messages for followers of Jesus Christ. There is just no evidence for that as many have pointed out. Acts 2 and 3 Peter clearly has a Jewish audience. He uses what we call the OT to prove Jesus is Messiah and Lord. He clearly makes the appeal in Acts 3 to listen to Isaiah 53 and the suffering servant. We see in Luke 24 Jesus opening the apostles minds to the Scriptures about Him.

It is one Gospel and Jesus gives it to them in Luke 24. Peter is not giving a discourse on grace and defining it in Acts 2 & 3. He is telling the audience of Jews what Jesus DID. The very act of dying and shedding His Blood and Raised three days later IS Grace.

I invite you to read all of Peter's epistles and let me know if he promotes a different gospel than Paul. 1 Peter 1 should be all that is needed to come to a conclusion:

1 Peter 1:

To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, 7 so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 8 and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls. 10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look. 13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” 17 If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth; 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. 20 For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you 21 who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. 22 Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart, 23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For, “All flesh is like grass, And all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, And the flower falls off, 25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.” And this is the word which was preached to you.

[smvoice]

Have you ever wondered where Peter got his information of the grace of God? He wrote that some things Paul wrote of are hard to be understood. But we are skipping right through the heart of a kingdom of believers and a body of believers, law and grace, and to the end, without ever understanding how it all began and if it was the same commissions given to Peter and Paul. That's what I'm trying to untangle here and why the questions I asked have been so seemingly simple to understand, with Scripture.

I am not going to the end until the beginning and middle are discussed in a way that makes perfect sense, Scripturally. If we cannot understand the beginning and what God was doing then, then how are we going to make any sense of the end?

The questions I asked you in the previous posts still stand for you to answer.

[daniel1212]

Why was Paul made an Apostle by the risen Christ?

Because God has a mission for every disciple, and Paul was a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: (Acts 9:15)

Thus his mission, while primarily to the Gentiles, was to all, and preaching the one gospel of repentance and faith in the crucified and risen Lord Jesus to save sinners, like Peter, whose main mission was to the Jews.

Nor was Paul the only apostle added after Matthias, as

Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, (Acts 14:14)

Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles , and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? Or I only and Barnabas , have not we power to forbear working? (1 Corinthians 9:5-6)

[smvoice]

So Paul will have a throne in the Kingdom when Christ returns?

[redleghunter]

I have answered all questions several times. There is but one Gospel and both Peter and Paul preached the same.

I have also posted several times the names of the dispensational theologians and none of them agree with your point of a “kingdom” dispensation within or just before a “grace” dispensation.

Every one of them have but one dispensation after the Cross and that is the “church” or “grace” dispensation. All of them Darby, Ironside, Schofield, Walvood and Ryrie (and many others) all of them one dispensation for grace/church age. Most of them above had to publish books refuting that they imply any other way of Salvation other than the shed Blood of Christ.

All of the above theologians are the ‘giants’ of dispensationalism.

I would like to know which theologian, pastor or book writer agrees with the theory you state.

[daniel1212]

I’m saying that Peter did NOT preach that Christ DIED FOR OUR SINS.

I am saying you need to study more of the Bible to see what Peter believed and taught. For Peter preached that faith in the Lord Jesus who died and rose provided forgiveness, as the Lord has long ago taught that and commissioned the apostles to preach it.

For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Mark 10:45)

And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:46-47)

As said, the two go together, and thus after Peter preached the death, burial and resurrection of Christ then he preached forgiveness and the Spirit by repentant faith in Him, confessed in baptism. (Acts 2:23-38)

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. (Acts 5:30-31)

Forgiveness was promised without a temple sacrifice because Christ was the sacrifice, and redemption was by faith, not earned by works. Which salvation by grace he likewise preached to the Gentiles

And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: (Acts 10:39)

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

Thus, while Peter is charged with preaching a different gospel than Paul, that of salvation by repentance, faith and works, and not preaching forgiveness on the basis of Christ's death, it is clear the two go together in Peter's preaching, and that this forgiveness and the Spirit are received by faith, faith that like Paul states, is confessed.

And this salvation by grace is further confirmed by Peter:

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:7-9)

And like as it is in Paul's epistles (not his recorded preaching) that we see the clearest statements on the atonement, Peter in writing to all, states,

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: (1 Peter 1:18-19)

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (1 Peter 3:18)

He indeed preached that Christ died, was buried and rose again the 3rd day. TO SIT UPON DAVID’S THRONE. And to await Israel’s recognition of Him as Messiah, at which point He would have returned to set up His Kingdom.

That is a misinterpretation based on Acts 2, but Peter did not preach that Christ's death and resurrection had no other purpose than to sit on the throne of David so that Israel would accept Him and attain national restoration via a gospel of faith and works, ruling over the Gentiles left out in the cold.

For while it is indeed true that the Lord first offered Himself as the Messiah to Israel, yet the fact that He died was because they had rejected Him - according to "the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God" - and thus He provided for salvation for all, and thus preaching redemption to the Gentiles is included in the Great Commission and by Peter.

For understanding the atoning import of Christ's death, as made clear by Christ beforehand, Peter's message in Acts 2 was that Christ was the promised Messiah, whom they slew, but by this death and resurrection God provided for the remission of sins and reception of the Holy Spirit by faith, a faith that is confessed, as Paul also taught. (Acts 2:38; Rm. 10:9,10)

And while Peter's message of forgiveness was to an audience of Jews to whom the gospel was first to be preached (and thus his exhortation, "let all the house of Israel know" they had killed their Messiah), yet his message was not simply to them, but

the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (Acts 2:39)

For this is what the Lord commanded:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matthew 28:19)

Have you ever wondered what would have happened to us Gentiles HAD the nation Israel accepted Him as their Messiah on the day of Pentecost? What would the natural progression have been.

The only real issue what Peter taught salvation was by, which remains to be by faith in the Messiah whose death provided for forgiveness and the Spirit, while your question confuses what would happen if the nation Israel accepted Christ as their Messiah beforehand, and He had not died but set up a theocracy with the Jews ruling over the Gentiles, versus Israel's acceptance after His death and resurrection.

For if Israel accepted Christ as their Messiah on the day of Pentecost then it would have been on the basis of needing forgiveness and regeneration just as just as Gentiles. For Israel, having rejected Christ already as their King (made plain by the words on the cross), this opened the way for salvation of Jews and Gentiles, "to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call," "and whosoever among you feareth God." (Acts 13:26 And which one flock Jesus had already alluded to. (Jn. 10:16)

Peter's focus was indeed on the Jews, but he knew the Great Commission was that of preaching redemption to all nations. And while until Acts 10 this was still yet understood by devout Peter as distancing himself from Gentiles as ceremonially unclean, yet the message to both was still that by the death and resurrection of Christ God provided for the remission of sins and reception of the Holy Spirit by faith in the risen Lord and Savior.

Remember, Peter had already stated in Acts 2:16-21 that the prophecy given by Joel (Joel 2:28) was being fulfilled before their eyes. From everything that was happening, they were INDEED in the last days that Joel had prophesied.

Yet it is in that day , rather than Israel being the elite elect,

it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: (Joel 2:28)

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call. (Joel 2:32)

Thus

Thus we are debtors both to the Jews and Gentiles, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise, (cf. Romans 1:14) to give them the one "gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)

[smvoice]

"And I went up by REVELATION, and COMMUNICATED unto them THAT GOSPEL which I preach AMONG THE GENTILES, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain."(Gal. 2:2)

"But contrariwise, when they (Peter and the 11) saw that the GOSPEL of the UNCIRCUMCISION was COMMITTED UNTO ME, as the GOSPEL of the CIRCUMCISION was UNTO PETER; (for he that wrought effectually in Peter to the APOSTLESHIP OF THE CIRCUMCISION, the same was mighty in ME TOWARD THE GENTILES:)(Gal. 2:7,8)

"And WHEN James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, PERCEIVED THE GRACE that was GIVEN UNTO ME, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision."(Gal. 2:9).

"THAT GOSPEL I preach among the Gentiles"..."the gospel of the circumcision/the gospel of the uncircumcision"..."the GRACE THAT WAS GIVEN TO ME"...

If these are the same gospels, why did Paul have to communicate THAT GOSPEL to the 12? It would have been the same they had been given. They added nothing to Paul, but HE shared with them THAT GOSPEL he preached among the Gentiles. WHY, if they were the same?

And how did Paul know that his was different and that he would go by revelation of Christ to Jerusalem to communicate THAT GOSPEL with the 12?

"But I CERTIFY you, brethren, that THE GOSPEL WHICH WAS PREACHED OF ME IS NOT AFTER MAN. For I NEITHER RECEIVED IT OF MAN, NEITHER WAS I TAUGHT IT, but by the REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST."(Gal. 1:11,12).

How? Because the Gospel of the CIRCUMCISION is NOT the same as the Gospel of the UNCIRCUMCISION. If they were the same, what in the world could Paul have added to them about it?

They are DIFFERENT. One is for a Kingdom of Believers (The Circumcision), the other is for a Body of Believers(The Uncircumcision).

Do you know how much sleep I will lose because "none of them agree" with me? Not much. Do you know how much sleep I would lose if I refused to study GOd's Word God's Way? A LOT.

No, you have not answered all questions several times. Where will Paul be when the Kingdom is set up, and Peter and the 11 are seated on twelve thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel? If they preached the SAME gospel, they should be seated at the same place. Next to Christ on His throne. I'll wait until you can get the answer. It's very important.

[daniel1212]

So, I'll ask again: If Paul was given the same Great Commission as the 12, and he was part of that group of Apostles, why the need for Paul, since Peter and the 11 were ALREADY told to go to all nations?

Why do we need anyone with a mission? Nowhere does it say he rest of the apostles only went to Jews all their life, and in fact out of the whole church that

"were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus. And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord." (Acts 11:19-21)

God raised up Hudson Taylor to go to China, and Carey to go to India, and Paul was to go to both Jews and Gentiles, and the last we read of him his is still reaching out to Jews, the former more for judgment.

If Paul was part of the 12, where will he sit in the Kingdom when the 12 are sitting on thrones with Christ, judging the 12 Tribes of Israel (Matt.19:28)??

Yyes, as the promise of doing so is not manifestly restricted to the 12, but "ye which have followed me," forsaking all, as in context:

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. (Matthew 19:27-30)

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? (1 Corinthians 6:2)

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)

THese are all questions that NEED to be answered if you believe Paul was counted with Peter and the 11.

They are answered, and Paul was counted with Peter and the rest, and counted himself as with them, who were given special revelation, though being the main apostle to the Gentiles.

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; (Ephesians 3:5)

For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. (1 Corinthians 4:9)

And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. (Galatians 2:9)

Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 15:24-26)

IF he shared the same commission, and he was an Apostle, then he should be sitting on a throne with them in the Kingdom. Right?

Indeed, as with all the faithful, though i do not doubt there are different positions

[smvoice]

Daniel, I'm writing this to you and redleghunter in particular. We cannot even go forward to the point of who was talking to whom when, because we cannot come to an understanding of how many gospels were in existence during Acts. I will say this: Paul calls his "MY GOSPEL" several times in his Epistles. IF there is a "MY GOSPEL", then there MUST have been more than ONE gospel. Otherwise why did he have the need to distinguish his? Why not call it everyone's gospel, if there was only one? Please put on your thinking caps here.

"And THE GRACE OF OUR LORD was exceeding abundant, with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners: of whom I am chief. HOWBEIT FOR THIS CAUSE I obtained mercy (WHAT CAUSE?), that IN ME FIRST Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, FOR A PATTERN to them which should HEREAFTER (Hereafter WHAT?? PAUL) believe on Him to life everlasting"(1 Tim.1:14-16).

In Paul FIRST, not along with Peter and the 11, Paul FIRST, Christ showed forth all longsuffering FOR A PATTERN to them HEREAFTER (AFTER PAUL).

It is impossible to understand how anyone can read this portion of Scripture without seeing that God began a new program/dispensation with the conversion of Saul. So what about those BEFORE PAUL? Peter and the 11? Do you really want to know? Do you really care to know?

The important question here though is: Did Paul consider HIMSELF as separate and distinct from the 12 or the same? The question is answered in I Cor. 15:5. When Paul says that the resurrected Christ was "seen...of the twelve". He considered them a separate and distinct group than himself. In Gal. when Paul goes to Jerusalem and communicates that gospel he preaches unto the heathen, he is giving them information that is DIFFERENT than the information they had. They added NOTHING to him, but they perceived THE GRACE THAT WAS GIVEN to Paul and gave him the right hands of fellowship, agreeing to confine their ministry(The Gospel of the Circumcision, the Kingdom Gospel)to the circumcision while he preached "MY GOSPEL", the gospel of the grace of God.

[smvoice]

You are just flat-out ignoring what Christ said. He said there would be 12 thrones, plus His, when His kingdom is set up. Why ignore this? Because you would have to answer “what about Paul?” Don’t you get it? THIS is exactly why rightly dividing God’s Word is imperative. Without that, we just speculate, ignore, sweep under the rug, or flat out deny what God has CLEARLY SAID.

[daniel1212]

Have you ever wondered where Peter got his information of the grace of God?

Wonder no longer, as Peter had about 3 years with the Lord who taught him some things about grace, including that He would be made a ransom for many, as Israel rejected Him, and thus that

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

And Paul alone was not the recipient of special revelation, but the Lord said that He had many more things to say to them, and Peter's sermon in Acts 2 was part of that, and was the gospel of grace, of forgiveness and the Spirit by faith in the crucified and risen righteous Christ

To Paul was revealed the mystery more deeply as concerns how this theologically worked, and of the ecclesiology of the one new man.

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: (Ephesians 3:5-6)

But the established point remains that both Jews and Gentile converts came to God as damned+destitute sinners, who trusted in the mercy of God in Christ to save them, believing on the crucified and risen Lord Jesus to save them, and confessing Him as Lord. One gospel of salvation by grace thru faith to multitude classes of peoples, but offered to Jews first on Pentecost, that a remnant would not follow the path of their leaders. To the glory of God. Amen.

[smvoice]

That would be a great argument, except for 1 Tim. 1:16. And Eph. 3:1-4. And Gal. 1:11,12. And Acts 20:24. And ROm.16:25,26.

Look, you can believe as you will. Obviously. But know that without rightly dividing God's word there is no stedfastness in doctrine. WHo gets water baptized? And how? When? What about tongues? and signs and wonders and miracles and faith healers and which miracle is from God and who judges that and where are WE in God's plan and timeline for man and what are our duties as believers and what is going to be our future and are we going through the tribulation, etc, etc, etc. Ad nauseum. OR you can rightly divide His word, like He has INSTRUCTED us to do, and be at peace. Not being like a child, but a mature member of the Body, ready to do His work and be an effective ambassador for Christ. It's your choice. It's your salvation. Work it out.