Posted on 11/20/2013 7:14:42 AM PST by Gamecock
Many of the old testament laws (prohibitions on certain types of food, rules about defecating in/outside the campsite etc) relate to health issues that would not have been understood at the time of their enactment.
Get back to me on whether you think giving birth is a sin, or if God was preventing after-birth infection.
They that are in health need not a physician, but they that are ill.
Grace is that salve that makes damaged souls whole despite the weakness of the flesh. Why would one which is already whole need that which has the sole purpose of healing?
Luke 1:28 appears to be referring to “grace” as in terms of “favor”, such as when a king “graces” you with his presence. Gabriel’s announcement has less to do with her and her status as the sole sinless human being on earth prior to that point and more to do with the fact that she has been favored with the honor of being the Theotokos, should she choose to accept it.
This in itself is the highest honor that can be bestowed upon any of God’s creatures and it is of a greater dignity than even immaculate conception or even living a life without sin — she was “graced” with the honor of carrying the Lord of all Creation in her belly. On account of this alone ought all generations call her blessed.
The dignity of that honor and the magnanimity of God in granting it is actually lessened by the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception rather than strengthened — if Mary was entirely without sin, even from conception, then she somehow “deserved” that honor (at least above all other creatures) and God was simply giving her something more due to her than to the rest of us. The alternative, however, is a God who bestows even the highest honor possible in all creation to those who certainly don’t deserve it, even to sinners whose due by their natures is His wrath. The honor involved in the latter scenario is infinitely greater than that reflected in the former. The pauper’s daughter who is made the prince’s bride is honored far more greatly than the daughter of the duke.
Yes, God could have created Mary sinless but mercy and glory most certainly could not be considered greater than it would be under the alternative, which would be far more reflective of an infinitely merciful and glorious God. Nor did God “require” a vessel spotless from her creation to be mother of His Son — a God who can make one sinless from creation can most certainly destroy sin completely and utterly while we are in the midst of our lives. That is, after all, the very thing that we as Christians believe God to do for us.
As for the infinite honor granted to Mary in bearing the God Himself, how far does this honor go? The same gospel author, eleven chapters later (in Luke 11:27 - 28), goes on to mention an incident where this very matter was brought up. “And it came to pass, as he spoke these things, a certain woman from the crowd, lifting up her voice, said to him: Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck.”
Our Lord’s response? “Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it.”
Then as a human, she sinned. Scripture is clear on that.
Excellent points.
Thank you!
bump
Mary was human, and all humans require the saving grace of God. Salvation is gained through grace alone.
Then as a human, she sinned. Scripture is clear on that.
No thanks.
What I 'think' is only a distraction; as well as what GOD was 'preventing'.
I can PLAINLY read what the text SAYS, and my thoughts would be mere speculation.
Jesus was also a human.
What is says, at absolute face value, is that you need to make atonement for giving birth. Does that make sense, or is some context in order?
Sin entered the world through the man. The sin nature is transmitted through the father.
Mary had a human father, therefore she had a sin nature.
Sine the sin nature doesn’t come through the mother, Jesus’ humanity was not a problem.
Sheesh, anything but admit that Mary was a normal human being, just like the rest of us.
Drawing also upon my own past as a fisherman, combining marine and also "fishy" parts, in light of tensions between differing camps, historical elements of those, along with some allusion to scripture too, etc., as those came to mind, I made attempt to work those varied things into a [possibly cheesy?] poem.
Why I did so, I don't rightly know (other than brain exercise, image combination and flows, and so on) for poetry writing has not been much of an interest to me --- and reading others stuff (so-called poetry) even less, for the most part.
So you can scroll past this, it's ok. all is forgiven beforehand. For setting, some scripture passages, first;
Matthew 23
47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that
was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat
down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
tentative titles
Song of the Sea Beggars or
Ode to (Pacific Coast, dover) Soul Fishing
Of those things said of sailors
uncalled be they not late for -
dinner payday speaking bold
why then refugee called "pirate" --
smuggle Christmas?
he was ordered and told !
Fortress to fo'c'sle,
'Cross port rang call
The Master has spoken;
Beggars need not to plunder
the Mary's Rose, for they be ours...
This fleet that treasure, the builder layed keels
to bear in holds 'neath hatch covers
...is it there?
be sure, hulls all well settled
for at the dawn, all wills sail
You there! cried chief bos'n Friend
John, sailor clear that raffle
mind straight that line of coil, this voyage
...tattered pennants cut plunge away, overboard
On floodmost tide, ship's bones, be borne, and be gone...
from this
Stand ready, watch
look listen hear that Wind?
that whispered voice
shouts as ancient storm, yet on, brings
high heaving rollers from distant
land, calls strangers, Home.
Too late now... are you seasick?
Yeah, there's a touch of that goin' 'round
[smiles] I know what you mean
but ease that sheet there would you
please now, now snub it, and that daydream
steady, brace feet square
these airs that here be rising dig
toes into deckboards, this brig
be...out, offshore's bound
...waking mid-ocean,
"how'd we get here, where we going?"
a sleepy lad asks,
but who's time to tell him, all sent
here regardless, must drink deep of the flasks
'bout little ships set floating, set off from the shore
on an Ocean Master's
plans, aims, and bidding,
an ocean's harvest for Him to store
...cabin-steward, the helm it's your turn,
winds tho' now be light,
can surprise sudden churn
surely you know?
That star, steer there that's the One
don't let 'er be fallin' off now...
whether buried lee rail, or no
the grounds' not your home
boy, shut that whine
We'll be there before All Who Knows it
sorts the good fish
from the dogsharks, skate rays
starfish, and the slime
BlueDragon, Nov. 22, 2013 No.
Go forth and MULTIPLY!!
BTW; you'll be UNCLEAN!!! if you do...
Does the RED TEXT somehow not register?
Then he shall offer it before the LORD and make atonement for her, and she shall be cleansed from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who bears a child, whether a male or a female.
'But if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, the one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.'"
I have a real hard time, figuring out how giving a priest a couple of birds, prevents infection.
But HEY!; that's just me...
The offering of doves was an atonement for the first transgression of Eve, a perpetual reminder of humanity's sinful nature.
Then either Mary was sinful, as a human being, or she wasn't human.
Jesus was without sin, but went to be baptized.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.