Posted on 11/19/2013 6:10:28 AM PST by Gamecock
“if they leave they never were one of us”
Such delusion.
So what do you do with this verse of Scripture? Ignore it? White it out in your Bible? I'm curious.
About Adam being the only one created in God's image:
"...Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." (Luke 3:38). Adam, which was of God by creation and who was the only man that could be of God in this sense. All others are sons of men, as Luke points out.
Grace is not static, it is dynamic and belongs to God.
If it belongs to God, why can't he take it away? If you see evidence that that has happened, why would you conclude it was never there in the first place?
Grace is a gift. It's not only dynamic, it's alive. In fact, it's Alive.
But like any living thing, you can kill it, or more accurately, evict it. (I don't like the verb "lose". When I lose something, I never do it deliberately. It is impossible to "lose" grace any way except deliberately.)
There's a riposte to this that is illogical. It goes, "If I can throw it away by my actions, it was never a gift to begin with!" That doesn't make sense in any context. If I give you a new Cadillac, and you wrap it around a tree, does the fact that you've wrecked your Caddy make it no longer a gift? Of course not.
That bad news is that it also doesn't obligate me to give you another new Cadillac. Even if you apologize to me and beg for a new one, it's probably not going to happen.
God, while certainly not obligated, is happily far more generous than I am.
I don’t have to do anything with it except agree with it. It talks about “sin,” not a “sin nature”.
The literal truth of the John 6 passage is what Jesus says in verse 29: "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent. After that the people still don't believe Him and want a sign. Then Jesus uses the sign of manna from Heaven to teach the literal truth of verse 29 in terms the people are fixated on...which is eating because He fed them earlier on.
Scripture says verses what the RCC says. Hmmmm, who to follow? Those who truly desire salvation had better put earthly organizations aside and get down on their knees and truly seek the council of the Holy Spirit.
I agree. I think another aspect is that humans have a tendency to allow someone else to make the decisions and to take the responsibility. Its the old dont blame me strategy to avoid personal responsibility.
Except that what he was saying, and the way he was saying it, was profoundly offensive. "Eat my flesh and drink my blood" ... he then changes Greek verbs to something that translates more like "Munch my flesh like a pig and chug my blood" (just to increase the offense).
(Eating human flesh and drinking human blood is only used in Scripture as a metaphor for overwhelming military defeat -- the kind of thing that causes people to resort to cannibalism. It's also a well-known Middle Eastern expression for reviling someone viciously.)
So Scripture records that many of his followers murmured "this is a hard teaching, who can accept it," then left him. He doesn't try to explain his "metaphor". He goes to the Apostles and says plaintively, "Do you also want to leave?"
Why the offense? Why the ugly imagery? And why did he happen to pick this particular theme for his preaching on Passover, exactly a year before the Last Supper?
Don't you understand what this means? Through Adam's sin, a sentence of death, without a promise of resurrection, passed upon all men; so, by the obedience of Christ taking man's place, the sentence was completely cancelled and original dominion restored. One is constituted a sinner THROUGH Adam, NOT by his personal sins, so one is constituted righteous THROUGH Christ, NOT by his personal acts of righteousness. THis is why acts of righteousness we have done have no bearing on our salvation. Nor do sins have varying degrees of wrong-doing in God's eyes. Sin is sin.
LOL Or have water gushing from their bellies?
AMEN. Yes, I understood your post. Why cannot all people see this?
On the part of Roman Catholics? Absolutely!
This basically gets back to the imputed righteousness error again. It's wrong, sorry. God doesn't have to settle with verbally declaring reality; he doesn't just "constitute" someone righteous, he makes it happen. By merely saying so. "Let there be light" created the universe. "Let him be justified" creates justified saints.
Although I will certainly agree with you that no "personal act of righteousness" can ever earn justification.
THis is why acts of righteousness we have done have no bearing on our salvation.
Tell me, when Scripture says that "love covers a multitude of sins," what does it mean?
Nor do sins have varying degrees of wrong-doing in God's eyes. Sin is sin.
Take it up with Jesus, who told Pontius Pilate, "He who handed me over to you is guilty of the GREATER sin"
You still haven't said anything proving that Adam had a "sin nature" that he passed on to his descendants.
I dont care what its discussing. You said that what metmom posted was not something the RCC says. I simply showed you that in fact the record shows that indeed it was something that is contained in the record of the RCC.
Im not going to follow you down some rabbit trail discussing the intracasies of what the RCC teaches. There are enough blatant contradictions to what scripture teaches such as the incorporation of pagan rituals, vestments, and beliefs that any person who is truly born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirit would avoid the RCC like a plague.
Perhaps my comments would be received differently if I confessed I was a born and raised and schooled former Roman Catholic:)
All your other comments are fine. Keep fighting Calvin and Luther. You can dig up their bones and put them on trial. No one here is presenting either man. Evangelicals are presenting the OT and NT scriptures.
I have no interest in "defending or contending" the 16th century all over again. Blood was spilled and many died against the commands of Christ not to kill each other.
Let's stick to the Bible please. We are in the 21st Century now and have God's Word in print no less and online no doubt.
Psalm 119:
159 Consider how I love thy precepts: quicken me, O Lord, according to thy lovingkindness. 160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. 161 Princes have persecuted me without a cause: but my heart standeth in awe of thy word. 162 I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil. 163 I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.
The Roman Catholic Church seems to have done away with the doctrine of sin. I once had a long discussion with a Papist apologist on exactly how sinful we are. Trotted out Romans 3:9-18. She told me it was all hyperbole.
Hey, they have statues that weep, water that heals, and oil that revives. WHERE are the glowing light of the world bodies and belly gushers?? SHOW US THE WONDERS. Don't just talk about turning wafers and wine into Christ. GLOW and FLOW, Pope people!
I posted in #61 where the "RCC" says EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what metmom's post claimed, and almost EXACTLY word-for-word what I wrote.
As I PM'ed you: write the letter. Have my bishop tell me to my face that the meritorious cause of my justification is my "intrinsic righteousness" and I'm a heretic for believing that it's Jesus.
Well, I guess that’s ONE way to deal with it. Just say it doesn’t exist. Too bad it’s talked about from Genesis through Revelation. That’s a LOT of denial to cover.:)
We weren't discussing why people leave the Catholic church to become evangelicals.
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