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What drove English and American anti-Catholicism? A fear that it threatened freedom
Catholic Herald ^ | November 12, 2013 | DANIEL HANNAN

Posted on 11/12/2013 3:47:47 PM PST by NYer

The US Declaration of Indepdence: Thomas Jefferson saw Catholicism as despotism

The US Declaration of Indepdence: Thomas Jefferson saw Catholicism as despotism

Foreign visitors are often bewildered, and occasionally disgusted, by the spectacle of Guy Fawkes Night. The English are not a notably religious people, yet here they are wallowing in what looks like a macabre orgy of anti-Catholicism.

In fact, of course, the event has transcended its sectarian origins. To the extent that participants are aware of any historical resonance at all, they believe they are celebrating parliamentary democracy – which needs protecting, these days, from the Treaty of Rome, not the Bishop of Rome. Fifth of November bonfires serve as a neat symbol for what has happened across the English-speaking world. A political culture that was once thought to be inseparable from Protestantism has transcended whatever denominationalties it had.

Guy Fawkes Night used to be popular in North America, especially in Massachusetts. We have excised that fact from our collective memory, as we have more generally the bellicose anti-Catholicism that powered the American Revolution. We tell ourselves that the argument was about “No taxation without representation” and, for some, it was. But while constitutional questions obsessed the pamphleteering classes whose words we read today, the masses were more exercised by the perceived threat of superstition and idolatry that had sparked their ancestors’ hegira across the Atlantic in the first place. They were horrified by the government’s decision, in 1774, to recognise the traditional rights of the Catholic Church in Quebec.

To many Nonconformists, it seemed that George III was sending the popish serpent after them into Eden. As the First Continental Congress put it in its resolutions: “The dominion of Canada is to be so extended that by their numbers daily swelling with Catholic emigrants from Europe, and by their devotion to Administration, so friendly to their religion, they might become formidable to us, and on occasion, be fit instruments in the hands of power, to reduce the ancient free Protestant Colonies to the same state of slavery with themselves.”

Puritans and Presbyterians saw Anglicanism, with its stately communions and surplices and altar rails, as more than half allied to Rome. There had been a furious reaction in the 1760s when the Archbishop of Canterbury sought to bring the colonists into the fold. Thomas Secker, who had been born a Dissenter, and had the heavy-handed zeal of a convert, had tried to set up an Anglican missionary church in, of all places, Cambridge, Massachusetts, capital of New England Congregationalism. He sought to strike down the Massachusetts Act, which allowed for Puritan missionary work among the Indians and, most unpopular of all, to create American bishops.

The ministry backed off, but trust was never recovered. As the great historian of religion in America, William Warren Sweet, put it: “Religious strife between the Church of England and the Dissenters furnished the mountain of combustible material for the great conflagration, while the dispute over stamp, tea and other taxes acted merely as the matches of ignition.”

John Adams is remembered today as a humane and decent man – which he was. We forget that he earnestly wondered: “Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?” Thomas Jefferson’s stirring defences of liberty move us even now. Yet he was convinced that “in every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.”

Americans had, as so often, distilled to greater potency a tendency that was present throughout the English-speaking world: an inchoate but strong conviction that Catholicism threatened freedom. Daniel Defoe talked of “a hundred thousand country fellows prepared to fight to the death against Popery, without knowing whether it be a man or a horse”. Anti-Catholicism was not principally doctrinal: few people were much interested in whether you believed in priestly celibacy or praying for the souls of the dead. Rather, it was geopolitical.

The English-speaking peoples spent the better part of three centuries at war with Spain, France or both. The magisterial historian of the Stuarts, J P Kenyon, likened the atmosphere to that of the Cold War, at its height when he was writing. Just as western Communists, even the most patriotic among them, were seen as potential agents of a foreign power, and just as suspicion fell even upon mainstream socialists, so 17th-century Catholics were feared as fifth columnists, and even those High Church Anglicans whose rites and practices appeared too “Romish” were regarded as untrustworthy. The notion of Protestantism as a national identity, divorced from religious belief, now survives only in parts of Northern Ireland; but it was once common to the Anglosphere.

When telling the story of liberty in the Anglophone world in my new book, I found this much the hardest chapter to write. Being of Ulster Catholic extraction on one side and Scottish Presbyterian on the other, I am more alert to sectarianism than most British people, and I’ve always loathed it. But it is impossible to record the rise of the English-speaking peoples without understanding their world view. Notions of providence and destiny, of contracts and covenants, of being a chosen people, were central to the self-definition of English-speakers – especially those who settled across the oceans. Protestantism, in their minds, formed an alloy with freedom and property that could not be melted down into its component elements.

And here’s the almost miraculous thing: they ended up creating a uniquely individualist culture that endured when religious practice waned. Adams and Jefferson led the first state in the world based on true religious freedom (as opposed to toleration). From a spasm of sectarianism came, paradoxically, pluralism. And, once it had come, it held on. “I never met an English Catholic who did not value, as much as any Protestant, the free institutions of his country,” wrote an astonished Tocqueville.

Best of all, Anglosphere values proved transportable: they are why Bermuda is not Haiti, why Singapore is not Indonesia and why Hong Kong is not China. There’s a thought to cheer us, whatever our denomination, all as the orange sparks rise from the bonfires each year.



TOPICS: Catholic; History; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholicism; founders
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To: Salvation

“You can’t be for abortion and be Catholic, it’s impossible”.

~ Father John Corapi

NOTE: It’s just a shame that these hypocrites continue to belittle and bring great scandal to the faith by continuing to call themselves Catholic when they renigged on the right to even be a Catholic when they started having abortions and supporting politicians who vote for abortion, and sodomite “marriage”.


101 posted on 11/13/2013 7:38:23 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: sean327
"Could it be you are ignorant?"

Well, if my theology deviated as far from the Scripture as Rome's has, then yes, I would be ignorant. But, read the Book, my FRiend...none of the cult-like operations promulgated by Rome are listed there. In the New Covenant there is no absolution of sin through a "priest", there is no transubstantiation, there is no genuflecting, there is no purgatory, there are no seven sacraments, there are no "Saints" (with a capital S), there are candles, there is no "Rome".

If the RC constituents would read their Bibles (you know, that Book that Rome claims to have delivered to the world, gag), they would find that God, before the foundation of the world, elected some to be granted grace to salvation, through a faith, none of which is their own. The entire package is a gift given to those whom He has chosen, not by any work, lest Rome get puffed up with its own press (a loose paraphrase). Go read it, my FRiend. If you are among those Jesus is drawing, you will recognize the truthfulness of these remarks and swim the Tiber...the other direction.

102 posted on 11/13/2013 8:15:17 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: NKP_Vet
“You can’t be for abortion and be Catholic, it’s impossible”.
~ Father John Corapi

NOTE: It’s just a shame that these hypocrites continue to belittle and bring great scandal to the faith by continuing to call themselves Catholic when they renigged on the right to even be a Catholic when they started having abortions and supporting politicians who vote for abortion, and sodomite “marriage”.

Funny you should use a John Corapi quote to talk about Catholic hypocrisy:

SOLT's fact-finding team has acquired information from Fr. Corapi's e-mails, various witnesses, and public sources that, together, state that, during his years of public ministry:
He did have sexual relations and years of cohabitation (in California and Montana) with a woman known to him, when the relationship began, as a prostitute; He repeatedly abused alcohol and drugs; He has recently engaged in sexting activity with one or more women in Montana; He holds legal title to over $1 million in real estate, numerous luxury vehicles, motorcycles, an ATV, a boat dock, and several motor boats, which is a serious violation of his promise of poverty as a perpetually professed member of the Society.
-- from the thread NEW Statement from SOLT on Father John Corapi [Catholic Caucus]
Corapi's 10 Percent Solution [the sacramental life was only 10 percent of his priesthood]
New Information on the Fr. Corapi Situation
Official SOLT Statement Regarding Fr John Corapi (Catholic Caucus)
Accuser selling Fr. John Corapi’s Rosary Blessed by John Paul II? (Catholic Caucus)
Father Corapi’s Bombshell[Catholic Caucus]
Father's Day Postcard to Fr. John Corapi, Layman (Catholic Caucus)
Fr. Corapi Announces He's Leaving The Priesthood
Father John Corapi Update
About Fr. John Corapi with observations about our times (Fr. Z weighs in)
Father John Corapi and the State of Due Process for Accused Priests [Catholic caucus]
Fr. Corapi Has Lost It
God love you, God bless you, and Good-Bye [Catholic Caucus]
Voris, Corapi, And The Ned Flanderification Of Catholic Commentary
Questions About Father Corapi's Military Records Raised, Again
"The Greatest" of Falls? Was Corapi Complicit in The Euteneuer Scandal? [Catholic Caucus]
Official EWTN Statement Regarding Fr.John Corapi [Catholic Caucus]
Statement of Santa Cruz Media, Inc. Relative to Fr. Corapi’s Suspension
A Call for Prayer [Fr. Corapi Accused of Sexual Misconduct][Catholic Caucus]

103 posted on 11/13/2013 8:45:47 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Revolting cat!
"Yes, it's politically incorrect, dear DU visitor."

I believe you have me confused with someone else. Catholicism, that self-promoting, error-ridden, religion of man does not get exposed by the DU. The two are peas in a pod.

104 posted on 11/13/2013 9:08:40 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Usagi_yo
"Beside, Catholicism is not incorrect nor correct. It’s a faith. So, set your head straight, you having faith in something that others do not, does not equal wrong or right for either side."

Pardon me, FRiend...are you saying that I am "wrong"? How can I be wrong if I believe it and you tell us that these things "believed" are neither right nor wrong? Upon what basis do you then determine I am wrong?

You may wish to pursue a good course in theology. There is truth and there is error. And, much of what you posted is error. Rome is also incorrect.

105 posted on 11/13/2013 9:22:30 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

Tautology, you lose.


106 posted on 11/13/2013 9:56:12 AM PST by Usagi_yo
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To: Alex Murphy

Father John Corapi was a great priest. He spoke the truth and brought many people to Catholicism. Liberals hated him though, so you posting a bunch of garbage from liberal sites after he quit actively preaching, does not surprise me in the least. He spoke the truth about the faith and could have cared less what some grandstanding liberal bishop thought about it. For that he was put on ice.

You must disagree with Father Corapi on abortion. Maybe you should fine yourself a liberal website to expouse your liberals views. Father Corapi was as conservative as they come.


107 posted on 11/13/2013 10:40:07 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
Father John Corapi was a great priest. He spoke the truth and brought many people to Catholicism. Liberals hated him though, so you posting a bunch of garbage from liberal sites after he quit actively preaching, does not surprise me in the least. He spoke the truth about the faith and could have cared less what some grandstanding liberal bishop thought about it. For that he was put on ice. You must disagree with Father Corapi on abortion. Maybe you should fine yourself a liberal website to expouse your liberals views. Father Corapi was as conservative as they come.

ROTFL!

108 posted on 11/13/2013 10:53:11 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Alex Murphy

Like I said before you’re a liberal. No conservative blasts a man that spoke the truth about homosexuals and corrupt priests and everything else that needs to be cleaned up in the Catholic Church. You need to start posting at the National Catholic Reporter. You’re on the wrong website. Look up the word “Sanctimonious”. That describes you and other Catholic bashers to a tee.

http://www.sanctepater.com/2011/06/michael-voris-on-fr-john-corapi-and.html

“Here’s a clear picture. Corapi .. among many things he said in the past .. pointed out the corruption in the Church. He unabashedly talked about the angry homosexual subculture that controls so much of what goes on.

He blasted unfaithful bishops .. meaning not only the obvious ones but also the ones who quietly and cowardly sit back and let heterodoxy and heresy spread unchecked.

It isn’t a stretch of the imagination to conclude many of the enemies he made and noses he got out of joint among the bishops and their lapdog media lackies are glad to see all of this going on.

And now .. the professional Catholics on the internet .. are piling on .. first stating their supposed concern and prayers for Fr. John and then launching into a stream of criticism that they themselves would wither under.

No matter what Fr. Corapi has done .. and no matter how he responded .. it is absolutely certain that there are many who are quietly enjoying this sad case. As far as they are concerned .. one of their opponents is now gone.


109 posted on 11/13/2013 11:00:38 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
Like I said before you’re a liberal. No conservative blasts a man that spoke the truth about homosexuals and corrupt priests and everything else that needs to be cleaned up in the Catholic Church. You need to start posting at the National Catholic Reporter. You’re on the wrong website. Look up the word “Sanctimonious”. That describes you and other Catholic bashers to a tee.

LOL not that you're making it personal or anything.

110 posted on 11/13/2013 11:05:18 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Alex Murphy

Bother someone else you can fool. Don’t respond to anything I post from now on. I have no desire to correspond with a closet liberal on FR.


111 posted on 11/13/2013 11:13:22 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet; Alex Murphy
abuse report submitted. Just so all will know it's not (our esteemed correspondent) AM who did so...
112 posted on 11/13/2013 11:13:57 AM PST by BlueDragon
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To: cripplecreek

My folks were so supportive of each other’s religion that they joked that Mom was a Metholic and Dad was a Cathodist.


113 posted on 11/13/2013 11:36:56 AM PST by rwa265
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To: RugerMini14

I generally see most Catholics as loyal Rat voters. Sadly.

Please realize that the Catholics on this site are mostly conservative Republicans.


114 posted on 11/13/2013 11:42:11 AM PST by rwa265
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To: Usagi_yo

Waiting...


115 posted on 11/13/2013 11:49:22 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: goodwithagun
"Former FReeper Jodyel made a similar statement. Notice I typed former. Even Jim Rob got involved in that skirmish."

Is this supposed to be a veiled threat? Perhaps you should review the posting rules. We are to be ladies and gentlemen, without personal attacks, no profanity, dealing with ideas. Hmmm.

116 posted on 11/13/2013 11:54:27 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Salvation; smvoice; boatbums; metmom; Alex Murphy
"No, Catholicism, guided by the Holy Spirit has been around almost 2000 years."

Well, then the gatherings of believers who are part of the Body of Christ, the Son of God, the Alpha and Omega, Jesus of Nazareth, Yahweh Elohim of the Scriptures, the Creator of Heaven and Earth, the Giver of Faith reaching all the way back to Abel (Heb. 12) apparently pre-date your organization.

117 posted on 11/13/2013 11:58:54 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

We have the story of Abel’s spilled blood in our Bible. Please do not try to put words into my mouth.


118 posted on 11/13/2013 12:10:04 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; Dutchboy88; Zionist Conspirator
We have the story of Abel’s spilled blood in our Bible.

Was Abel a real, historical, singular person? Who were Abel's parents? Were they real, historical, and singular people as well? Did the blood spilling happen on a particular, singular day in time-and-space history?

119 posted on 11/13/2013 12:16:33 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: NKP_Vet
"Not the first immigrant to American left Europe running from Catholics. It was protestants that drove other Christian faiths out of Europe. And the Catholics that came to America were ran out of Europe those friendly protestants. They’ve always been such a friendly bunch. Anyone care to talk about what protestants did to other protestants at the Salem witch trials

Okay, this is a rather peculiar post. Can you fill me in on the connection to what I said?

120 posted on 11/13/2013 12:19:58 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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