The Two Witnesses and Today's World Leaders

IFB ^ | 11/11/13

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

What a horrifically EXPONENTIAL amazing time is just before us in which the world of today is absolutely oblivious to (1 Thess. 5:2-3). The Day of the Lord is at hand in which the godlessness, lawlessness and violence of man will reach its EXPONENTIAL zenith (2 Thess. 2:2:8-12, Rev. 6-19)! What is amazing is that the very world leaders we see today raging and conspiring against Israel and Almighty God's RIGHTEOUSNESS most likely will be the very ones who will give their power and authority to the upcoming beast (aka- Anti Christ - 2 Thess. 2:3-12, Rev. 13, 17:12-17).

These present day world leaders may also be the very ones who - during the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period - will seek to destroy Israel and Israel's Divine protectors (the TWO Lamp Stands of Almighty God- Rev. 11:2-6). It will be at the end of Almighty God's Two Witnesses 3 1/2 year ministry that these world leaders will rejoice greatly in their new godless leader's (aka -the Anti Christ) assassination of Almighty God's indestructible Two Witness's temporal demise (Rev. 11:2-7). So VEXED, so TORMENTED, so ENRAGE will this war ravished world and their leaders be at Almighty God's Two Witnesses and their RIGHTEOUS message that when their 3 1/2 year ministry finally comes to and end (Rev. 11:7) the world and its leaders will REJOICE exceedingly and give their FULL allegiance to the risen Beast (Anti Christ) who will now DOMINATE the world stage for the last 3 1/2 years (2 Thess. 2:8-12, Rev. 11:7-14, Rev. 13, Rev. 17:13-17).

The "SUPER NATURAL" of this seven year period will be as common as the "non-super natural" of our day. MOSES and ELIJAH (the Two Witnesses) will zealously protect Israel, EVEN in Israel's unbelieving state (Ezek. 39:26, Rev. 11:9) from the world’s enraged nations and demonic legions (Rev. 9, 11:5-6). It is our personal belief that Moses and Elijah (Almighty God's Two Witnesses) will be used of Almighty G-d to bring about the massive destruction of Gog of the land of Magog and his Islamic confederacy and armies (Ezek. 38-39, Rev.11:5-6).

As the Two Witnesses of Almighty God's ravished bodies lay in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days, the remaining world will EXCEEDINGLY rejoice and praise the Beast saying, "Who can make war with the beast? - Rev. 13:1-4)". However... the Two Witnesses greatest VICTORY is about to be seen! Can you imagine the glorious godless mood of the world at this time when these Two Men are finally disposed of? In the world's godless hearts and minds there is now no limit to what their godless imaginations will take them, for they TRULY believe that they have finally rid the world of Almighty God and His Two Witnesses (Gen.11:6, 2 Thess. 2:8-12, Rev. 11:10-13).

"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." Rev. 11:10-13

With Moses and Elijah's resuscitation and ascension in front of all their enemies into Almighty God's presence they have now WONDROUSLY confirmed and affirmed all of what they have stated for the last 3 1/2 years! All what they have stated WILL come to pass and the Devil himself can NEVER stop it (Dan. 43-44, 7:13-14, Rev. 11:15, 17:17, 19:11:21, 20:1-10)! What is most astounding and amazing about this future event is that the godless world leaders and their peoples at this time will NOT repent, but sell their souls to the Anti Christ and partake of the abomination which leads to ETERNAL desolation all the way to the Battle of Armageddon and ETERNAL Damnation (Zech.14:1-4, 2 Thess. 2:8-12, Rev. 14:9-11, 16:13-16, 19:11-21).

WOE, WOE, WOE.... to those in that Day!

The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!

[redleghunter]

What I stated came from the NT. It was the Gospel proclaimed by the apostles in Acts. So if someone comes with a different Gospel other than what Christ gave to the apostles, then their message is false.

I noticed how you deceptfully injected "what you think" into my statements. Nice try. Perhaps you should reveal to us what you think the two witnesses are going to unveal if it is different from the message of the 27 NT books?

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

“No where has God said revelation ended. No where.”

Absolutely false! Jesus Christ is the Word of God, through which the elect are reconciled to God. This same Jesus Christ sent the Apostles throughout the known world to spread the Gospel. The Gospel is the final revelation from God, for we read in 2 Thessalonians 2:14-15 “to this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”

did you catch it? “taught by us”, who is the “us”? The Apostles! We are to keep the traditions received from the Apostles, the Apostolic Faith! there can be no further revelation after the Apostles died, because that revelation was Whole and Complete. No one else was commissioned by Jesus Christ to bring forth revelation and there is no indication or statement from the Apostolic Faith that we are to look for further revelation AFTER the death of the Apostles.
obviously Amos was written before the Apostle John died, so further revelation was still possible.
you say Amos says God doesn’t nothing except through a prophet, the Scriptures are clear God the Holy Spirit works thru the Church to build the kingdom of God.
the test of a prophet is does what they are saying line up with the Apostolic Faith, once delivered to the saints? on this test, Joseph Smith can easily be proven to be a false prophet. one example, JS taught the entire Church went apostate and it needed to be restored by him. Does the Bible teach this? absolutely not! Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church, that He would be with us always, even to the end of the age and Paul tells us in Ephesians 3:21 “to him be glory in the chuch and in Christ Jesus TO ALL GENERATIONS for ever and ever. Amen.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

“God is not finished with Israel”

Of course God is not finished with “Israel”, but the question is “who is Israel”?

Galatians 3:29 “and if you are Christ’s, then you are Abrahams’s offspring, heirs according to the promise”
Galatians 6:16 “peace and mercy be upon all who walk by this rule, upon the Israel of God”
Romans 2:29 “he is a Jew who is one inwardly and the real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal”
Romans 9:6 for not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel
Romans 9:8 this means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise who are reckoned as descendants

the Scriptures are very clear and the Church has taught for 2,000 years that Israel in the OT was a type of the Church and this mystery was revealed in Christ, where there is neither Jew nor Greek, but if you are “in Christ” you have been grafted into the one olive tree of the Israel of God, which is of Faith not flesh.

all Christians believed this up until the 19th century when “dispensationalism” came on the world scene. Calvin, Luther and Wesley all taught this historical Christian truth.

once it is clearly understood that the Israel of God is the Church, then all the dispensational blindness that infects many people’s understanding of Revelation be cured.

individual Jews can become believers and a small number have throughout history. but national Israel has been cursed for unbelief, and will never bear fruit again. Mark 11:12-25.

[Jeremiah Jr]

There is no seven year tribulation...

In the middle of the seven (week) He, Yeshua, put an end to sacrifice and offering, It is finished!
Yohannan (John) 19:30.

This was the year 30 C.E., 3790 Hebrew year, and Pesach happens to be the middle of a week.
The seven, or week is a shmita cycle. The patterns are in the Torah.

Leviticus 25:4 But in the seventh year the land is to have a sabbath of rest, a sabbath to the LORD. Do not sow your fields or prune your vineyards.

So, 7 x 541 = 3787 and counting from Rosh Hashanah three and a half arrives at Pesach 3790 the middle of a week.

For more info see:
Why Didn’t the Red Ribbon on the Head of the Scapegoat Turn White in 30 C.E.?
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/articles/red-ribbon.html

Search the book of Revelation and you will find no seven year time period but lot's of references to three and a half.

[Just mythoughts]

These present day world leaders may also be the very ones who - during the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period - ...

One must need to know that Christ declared as recorded in Matthew 24:21 quoting Daniel "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, 'Lo, here is Christ,' or 'there;' believe it not.

It is deception that causes the tribulation that has not been since the 'beginning of the world'.

Do you know who the anti ... instead of Christ is? If one does not know who this entity is then the deception is already well underway...

Might consider that parable of the 10 virgins, it is found right after Matthew 24 in chapter 25. Why the parable give not hint or suggestion the virgin waiting for the bridegroom is zapped off earth. Why the virgins are susceptible to the same tribulation as all other flesh.

[StormPrepper]

[StormPrepper]“No where has God said revelation ended. No where.”

[one Lord one faith one baptism]"Absolutely false! Jesus Christ is the Word of God..."

What you've done is to jump to a conclusion that fits your desired outcome. But your desired outcome doesn't fit common sense, the scriptures, the nature of God... pretty much nothing. I call it the "Evangelical Wash Cycle".

When Evangelicals don't like either the implied meaning or the logical conclusion of a scripture they just put into the "EWC" and viola! It comes out a twisted, tortured, and convoluted mess. Their conclusion makes no sense but satisfies their desired outcome and puts them back to sleep.

Here's a good example:
"Absolutely false! Jesus Christ is the Word of God, through which the elect are reconciled to God. This same Jesus Christ sent the Apostles throughout the known world to spread the Gospel. The Gospel is the final revelation from God, for we read in 2 Thessalonians 2:14-15 “to this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”

Here's a total illogical spin:
"The Gospel is the final revelation from God..."

Noticed the desired outcome "The Gospel is complete and we have it all". Now the see the "EWC" effect; We have the Gospel and there's no more revelation because we don't have prophets and God would be talking to other people and not us. Therefore; VIOLA! The little bit of stuff we're willing to accept is allll there is from God.

Not to be dramatic, but that's the "wash cycle" I've seen from evangelical types all over the internet.

From the time of Adam down to John God called Prophets to lead the people. There were people all over the world. And the only reason there were no prophets for a time after John was because the people would have killed them just like they did the original Apostles and Jesus himself.

Man chose to leave the true gospel and make up their own.

Ephesians 4:
11 And he agave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

God gave us living Apostles and Prophets for guiding the people. For the very reason He states above, perfecting people. Especially for verse 14. Men will deceive by creating all kinds of false doctrine, but God gave us prophets to keep it all straight.

Rev 11 is proof positive that there will be Prophets on the earth guiding the people before the second coming of Christ. It's the pattern God has followed since the foundation of the earth. The first man on earth was a prophet. The last man on earth, who will turn the lights out on His way out the door will be Jesus, who not only was the Son of God, but was also a prophet.

What I don't get is how do Evangelicals think they are going to get around this at the judgement? Is this a "cross that bridge when we get to it" moment?

[StormPrepper]

Church has taught for 2,000 years..

This is called "appeal to tradition". It's a logical fallacy.

...Calvin, Luther and Wesley taught this historical Christian truth.

This is called "appeal to authority". It's a logical fallacy.

None of those men were prophets. Unless you're claiming Calvin and Luther's authority came from burning people at the stake for heresy.

Rev 11 explicitly tells of prophets in the last days. It's just that simple. It's been God's pattern since Adam.

Rev 11 is the nemesis of every Catholic and Protestant in the world today. I was baptized into a southern Baptist church and Rev 11 was one of the scriptures that made me drop it like a hot potato.

Baptists don't have prophets. The Baptist belief system wasn't created by a prophet. Neither were the Catholics, the Lutherans, the Methodist, the Presbyterians, etc. And these two won't be accepted by any of those groups as prophets either.

Here's a prophesy from Paul that warns everyone:

2 Tim 3:
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

[He lists a whole bunch of nasty traits men will have in the last days]

[including]
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

They have a type of "godliness". How do they deny the power of God in the last days and still try to be godly? That's easy, they go around denying that God has the power to talk to men in the last days. They deny modern revelation.

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Jannes and Jambres were priests in Pharaoh's court. And what did they do? They rejected the true prophet standing right infront of them. Paul saw the future and saw all these people and these preachers and priests that go around proclaiming "Jesus!" and "praise God!"... they have a type of godliness. But it's fake. They reject the true prophet just like Jannes and Jambres did.

And in like manner these people will reject the two prophets spoken of in Rev 11.

[StormPrepper]

I noticed how you deceptfully injected "what you think" into my statements.

Deceitfully? Really?

[StormPrepper]

"Perhaps you should reveal to us what you think the two witnesses are going to unveal if it is different from the message of the 27 NT books?"

Meet an Apostle

Here's what they are teaching right now - very powerful

Here's another true Apostle

Here's what he teaches

It's not whether that it's different than what's in the NT. It's that it will be taught correctly.

[Religion Moderator]

Reading the mind of another Freeper - "what you think" - is a form of "making it personal."

Also, accusing another Freeper of telling a lie - "you deceptfully" - is a form of "making it personal" because it attributes motive, the intent to deceive.

Both of you, do NOT make this thread about yourselves or other individual Freepers.

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[redleghunter]

First you can dispense with labeling “dispensationalism.” Let’s stick to the Bible.

Were the promises made by God to Abraham in Genesis Chapters 12 and 17 literal, or allegory?

Were the promises made by God to Abraham in Genesis Chapters 12 and 17 conditional or unconditional?

It may be handy to pull out a DRA or KJV to read over those promises because the “thee” “thy’s” etc. really help out.

[redleghunter]

Rev 11 explicitly tells of prophets in the last days. Well two to be precise:Revelation 11:

3 “Also I will give power to my two witnesses; and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth.”

[roamer_1]

Jesus is the seed of Abraham and anyone who is Christ’s is an heir to all the promises made to Abraham and Israel in the OT.

Really... How then does one get the promises individually distributed to the twelve tribes by inheritance into Yeshua? No doubt the crown/scepter and the rod, promised to Judah, are His... But the lion's share (pardon the pun) went to Joseph... to Ephraim and Manasseh. Please begin with Gen 48-49, and note that these promises are prophetic... 'what will befall them in the last days'...

[editor-surveyor]

>> “Why the parable gives not hint or suggestion the virgin waiting for the bridegroom is zapped off earth. Why the virgins are susceptible to the same tribulation as all other flesh.” <<

.
It is the virgins that the tribulation is all about.

The tribulation is of the saints, not all flesh. It is Satan, inhabiting the world’s king that does the tribulation.

You may be confusing the tribulation with Yehova’s wrath, which begins at the end of the trib, at the last trump, and lasts for exactly ten days.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “Were the promises made by God to Abraham in Genesis Chapters 12 and 17 literal, or allegory?

Were the promises made by God to Abraham in Genesis Chapters 12 and 17 conditional or unconditional?” <<

.
It would be wise for one debating these issues to carefully read the account of the prophet Baalam, and his attempt to curse Israel for the king of Amalek.(Numbers)

It fully affirms that Israel’s absolute rights under the covenant will be upheld eternally.

[redleghunter]

A valid point. My answer is the Promises God made to Abraham were unconditional and literal. We will disagree on many points, but God is not finished with Israel and Israel does not equal Church. To come to that conclusion of Replacement theology, one would have to allegorize most of the OT and parts of the NT.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

all the promises in the OT were literal and unconditional.

BUT........the promises were to Israel.

we read the OT thru the new revelation contained in the NT.

the NT is quite clear...”Israel” is NOT people of Hebrew DNA. Israel is everyone “in Christ”, be they OT or NT believers.

sorry you took offense at the label dispensationalism, it is a legitimate term to describe those who hold a certain theological view, same as Calvinism.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

Really... How then does one get the promises individually distributed to the twelve tribes by inheritance into Yeshua? No doubt the crown/scepter and the rod, promised to Judah, are His... But the lion’s share (pardon the pun) went to Joseph... to Ephraim and Manasseh. Please begin with Gen 48-49, and note that these promises are prophetic... ‘what will befall them in the last days’...

types and shadows my friend, the substance is Christ.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

Galatians 1:8 “but even if we, or an angel from heaven ( including Moroni ), should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we preached to you, LET HIM BE ACCURSED”

the Apostles preached the complete Gospel, once delivered to the saints, and it is perfect in it’s ability to deliver men from the dominion of darkness into the kingdom of the Father’s beloved Son.

we do not need any more revelation than that taught by the Apostles and the Scriptures do not indicate ANYWHERE that we are to expect additional revelation after the death of the Apostles.
Revelation 11 says nothing about future prophets guiding the people. God raises up leaders in His Church and He has done that for nearly 2,000 years. the Scriptures do speak of false prophets arising and leading many astray. Joseph Smith must be counted among them since he did not bring the Gospel once delivered to the saints.

[roamer_1]

types and shadows my friend, the substance is Christ.

Types and shadows eh? Isn't the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah the spirit of prophecy?

So was Yeshua lying back there in Genesis?