Posted on 11/11/2013 3:31:57 PM PST by The Ignorant Fisherman
Are we properly using the scriptures to show that accepting Jesus as our Savior (becaming a Christian), is a very separate event from physical baptism (either by sprinkling or by emersion), and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit whereby a person receives their “Holy” language of speaking in other tongues. The Bible seems to clearly differentiate between these events ..??
If you’ve never led another person to receive this wonderful “GIFT” (as the scripture says), you have missed a great experience.
For me, it was as simple as my Pastor’s wife telling me, “... It’s a gift; all you have to do is ask”. I do believe the scripture shows that Jesus said, “... Ask and you shall receive”. So, I guess you can either believe that or not.
God’s greatest gift was the power to choose.
Yes. I know. Which is exactly what 1 and 2 Thess. points out.
That teaching on the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not Scriptural.
There is nowhere in Scripture that teaches that all believers speak in tongues or that tongues is some kind of *holy* language.
That's a construct of the misguided within the charismatic movement that fosters spiritual pride between the have's and the have not's.
Romans 10:
Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Of course not. That is why I posted Romans 10. Acts 22 also states about Paul "‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth." This along with "Paul was praying" shows the inner portion of the cup was clean before the outer portion of the cup was clean.
No one here is advocating not to be baptized. Jesus clearly states make disciples and baptize; those who believe and are baptized. That is a pretty clear command right there. See Mark 16:16...And yes that verse is in the Bible I use. The preponderance of the scriptural evidence is "belief" i.e. faith/trust in the shed Blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse all sins comes before water baptism. Water baptism is our "religious ceremony" or act of the Christian that is regarded as an outward and visible sign of inward and spiritual divine grace.
Well, ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE UPPER ROOM SPOKE IN OTHER TONGUES. The scripture in Acts says “... and they ALL SPOKE IN OTHER TONGUES”.
So .. I would presume by the evidence of the upper room, that GOD MEANT IT FOR ALL BELIEVERS.
However, NOWHERE DOES IT DEMAND THAT YOU ACCEPT THE GIFT!!
So .. since I serve a just GOD, He’s not requiring you to receive the gift. He wants it for you .. but you can refuse.
There are 3 definite events - receiving Christ; physical baptism (an outward symbol of an inward heart change); and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit whereby the evidence of this baptism is the speaking in other tongues.
THEREFORE, you have no argument.
That quote is wrongly attributed to Einstein.
I agree. The point of contention is the word "wrath." Some believe that to be the wrath God will pour out as shown in Revelation; some believe it is the eternal wrath. That one "term" "word" and "Israel" define one's understanding of eschatology.
Good find. All the more evidence of the OT and NT “holding hands.”
1 Corinthians 12:4-11 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as HE wills.
All of his kids were sure brilliant!
That was pretty clear.
The “Gifts of the Spirit” are separate from the “gift” of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.
In Corinthians, the teaching progresses .. The Bible is, after all, a lesson in the progression of understanding of the scriptures. And, as evidence, Corinthians comes AFTER the Book of Acts. The “Gifts of the Spirit” are only given as the Spirit wills, and usually with more mature Christians.
As to what people knew or understood at the time of the writing of the Bible, much more revelation has been given by the Holy Spirit as to a clearer understanding.
You are free to believe whatever you choose.
However, I do not need you to agree with what I believe, in order to continue in my belief.
Just because what I believe is unacceptable to you .. you want me to renouce what I believe.
Good luck with that !!!!!
Chapter and verses? Everything must be established by two or three witnesses.
Just because what I believe is unacceptable to you .. you want me to renouce what I believe.
And I said that where exactly?
FWIW, I received the Holy Spirit when I got saved, just like everyone else who does. And I was filled at a later date and have not yet spoken in tongues and do not care if I do.
If God sees fit to have me do it to further His kingdom, then He will see to it that it happens, but I am not going to disobey Scripture and seek for it.
I told you - you do not have to believe what I believe.
But, since you do not believe a word I say, this conversation is over. There is no point.
I refuse to argue with you.
Goodbye.
Eph. 4:4-6: "There is one body (we all agree on that), and one Spirit (we all agree on that), even as ye are called in one hope of your calling (we all agree on that). One Lord (agree), one faith (agree), ONE BAPTISM (...oops, trainwreck here, falling off the tracks...uh, what the?..), and the rest just sort of shuffles off into the darkness...
If we cannot come to an understanding of what ONE BAPTISM means, we will all be arguing, WITH SCRIPTURE mind you, until the day we are raptured.
One baptism means exactly what it says. ONE. Not pick and choose your own baptism meaning. Not this plus that.
If a person does not rightly divide God's word of truth, this one truth is completely lost in the mayhem. {{{sigh}}}}
metmom, I'm not directing this toward you, by any means! I'm just using your post to state my argument. According to Scripture. And the word given by God to Paul for us, the Body of Christ. "BUT NOW"(Eph. 2:13), one baptism does not mean two, or take your choice or one for God and another for the congregation. It means one.
I suppose Catholics also are susceptible to water flowing from their belly?
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Doesn’t that give you some sort of hint about what the water represents? Catholics really need to understand that they have been lied to by the RCC. I think Iscool in his post 259, as others have done, showed how much in error the RCC is on this issue.
Catholics read scripture with the colored glasses of the RCC teaching. It’s actually really sad to watch.
Amen! Come quickly Lord Jesus!
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