“Probably quite a few. I had spent nearly 40 years as a Baptist before I saw ANYONE try to impose the Lord’s Supper on John 6.”
Impose? Wow. I guess that shows just how bad a lot of Protestant Bible study is.
“When challenged, you simply reach for the Bible and see what it has to say.”
That’s not what you do. 1) You’re most likely using translations like most people do. So you are very dependent on “what others believe”. This not only shows the short falls of sola scriptura, it shows the inherent intellectual dishonesty of Protestantism. 2) Early Christians had no problem seeing the Eucharist in John 6. They knew Greek as their first or second language. And you?
“Sorry, but we would. The Pope didn’t write the scriptures.”
Actually, Peter, the first pope, wrote two of the books of the New Testament.
“The Old Testament was accepted in its Protestant form by Jesus & the Apostles & the Jews.”
Actually, no. There’s no evidence of that whatsoever.
“The New Testament was largely settled by 150 AD, although each congregation had the option of deciding which books it accepted.”
Nope.
“Since the Roman Catholic Church did not come up with a binding list until the Council of Trent,...”
Be careful. See, for instance, the Council of Florence, Session 11. There may be no anathema attached to it, but someone could make a case that it was binding.
” 1) You’re most likely using translations like most people do. So you are very dependent on “what others believe”. This not only shows the short falls of sola scriptura, it shows the inherent intellectual dishonesty of Protestantism.”
Actually, the translations are extremely good. They are made by groups of outstanding scholars, whose knowledge of Greek and Hebrew exceeds anything I could learn. There are also excellent commentaries available to discuss the various meanings possible where the Greek or Hebrew allow it.
For example, this discussion of John 6:
http://www.studylight.org/com/rwp/view.cgi?bk=42&ch=6
My study is not based on what others tell me to believe. That is the Roman Catholic approach - don’t read for yourselves, just trust ‘tradition’.
“2) Early Christians had no problem seeing the Eucharist in John 6. They knew Greek as their first or second language. And you?”
Reading it into John 6 is simply bad reading. It takes it out of context. The CONTEXT comes immediately after the feeding of the 5000, and years before the Last Supper. Hmmmm...context. It is amazing how much easier it is to understand the scriptures when you accept the context, instead of pretending it doesn’t exist so you can read human theology into the text.
This is not a “Greek vs English” issue. Nor does using Latin as your authoritative version hellp.
I’ve never seen anyone read the Lord Supper into John 6 UNLESS they were told to by people with an agenda. It simply isn’t something a person reading on their own would do.
And yes, there is ample evidence that Jesus and the Apostles accepted the Jewish canon for the Old Testament - as Jerome understood. The comments of Jesus, recorded in scripture, sets it out: “Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures...”
Those are the 3 sections used by the Jews as the Old Testament, as attested to by Josephus:
“..we do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with one another, [as the Greeks do]; but our books, those which are justly believed, are only 22…Of these, five are the books of Moses…the prophets after Moses wrote the events of their own times in thirteen books. The remaining four books contain hymns to God and precepts for the conduct of human life.”
The Psalms were sometimes rolled into the Law, as when Jesus spoke in John 10:34: “34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? [Cited from Ps. 82:6]. When that is done, we have 2 sections - The Law and the Prophets:
“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. Matthew 5:17
“For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. Matthew 11:13
“The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. Luke 16:16
Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.” John 1:45
After the reading of the Law and the Prophets the synagogue officials sent to them, saying, “Brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” Acts 13:15
I have no objection to someone reading the Apocrypha, but Jesus did not refer to it as scripture.
As for the New Testament, it was in common acceptance with minor variations very early on.
“The only books about which there was any substantial doubt after the middle of the second century were some of those which come at the end of our New Testament. Origen (185-254) mentions the four Gospels, the Acts, the thirteen Paulines, 1 Peter, 1 John and Revelation as acknowledged by all; he says that Hebrews, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, James and Jude, with the ‘Epistle of Barnabas,’ the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, and the ‘Gospel according to the Hebrews,’ were disputed by some. Eusebius (c. 265-340) mentions as generally acknowledged all the books of our New Testament except James, Jude, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, which were disputed by some, but recognised by the majority.” - F.F. Bruce
You will notice they were in common acceptance as scripture centuries before Augustine and Jerome argued about the canon, and some 1400 years before the Council of Trent.
This is why I say were are not trying to be different than the Catholic Church. Our reasons for accepting the Old Testament as used by the Jews is that Jesus and the Apostles accepted it as such. The New Testament was largely settled by 150-200 AD, although even good Catholics could argue about the disputed books into Luther’s day without fear of condemnation.
God’s Word is amazing - as Jesus said: ““Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.”
And please notice I do not cite Luther as an authority, or Calvin, or any other Reformers. Take off the chains of human tradition, and simply read the Word of God.