>> So you basically threw spaghetti on the wall from some website and hoped it would pass muster.. <<
No, I recognize that there is some matter of subjectivity in deciding what’s a citation and what’s merely an allusion.
>> (I know because I saw the same list on another forum) <<
Funny, because although I had a couple sources, I whittled them down to a much smaller number; the list, therefore, is my own.
>> You can keep posting Heb 11:35 as Maccabees, but it breaks with the other references all coming from the Law, Prophets and Psalms. <<
You’ll note that of the Historical books I listed in a later post (Ezra-Nehemiah, Judges, Joshua, Ruth, Samuel, Kings, Chronicles. Esther), only Samuel and Kings have any citations at all. Most historical cites actually come from “the Law.” Thus, the dueterocanonical books, being mostly historical books are going to tend to fail your criteria. The fact that 1 & 2 Maccabees (being separate books from the start, unlike Chronicles, Samuel, Kings, and Ezra-Nehemiah) have citations in SPITE of being historical books rather than the Law, only adds to their legitimacy.
>> Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit. <<
I didn’t miss it. He has an inspired, infallible interpretation of the Old Testament, but never bases any arguments on his own sensibilities, but always on previous revelation. That God took Enoch to Heaven is hardly obvious from Genesis, and Paul’s/Wisdom’s meaning of saying he did is theologically challenging: Did Enoch go to Heaven without being redeemed by Christ?
>> The women received (past tense) their children by resurrection. This happened with Elijah and Elisha (I gave you the references). <<
Yes, it did. But you’re looking at the wrong half of the verse. What I was referring to was “and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection;” Although, for instance, David prophetically grasps at some notion that he will not spend eternity in Sheol, (also, see Ezekiel, Isaiah, etc.) nowhere in the Protestant canon does anyone explicitly state that they will be resurrected. The word doesn’t even exist in the Protestant Old Testament canon!
I don’t even have a clue what you mean to reference by “The ‘they might obtain a better resurrection’ refers to all of the above mentioned.” Where in the references mentioned does anyone accept torture for the sake of God?
And because it’s a common rhetorical technique when someone is losing an argument to pick up on a highly controvertible asserion, even if it is off-topic, I’ll just cut you off:
“Did Enoch go to Heaven without being redeemed by Christ?” The answer is no. But Paul brings up a startling question by mentioning Sirach, which he wouldn’t bring up if he had stuck to Genesis.
It was never my criteria to begin with. This all started with a bold claim that the NT CITES the Apocrypha. Let the dead horse RIP.
You then tried to move the goal posts by laying down there were OT non-Apocrypha books which were not quoted or cited in the NT. I then told you I never made a contention every book in the OT was quoted in the NT. Never once did I do so. You offered a list, which was inaccurate and I responded to that list.
What you missed in an earlier post,to the poster of this hit piece article, that the non-Apocrypha OT books (minus Esther) all have God directly speaking or a prophet saying "thus saith The Lord."
I presume this does not count as revelation enough?:
9 A vision appeared to Paul in the night: a man of Macedonia was standing and appealing to him, and saying, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” 10 When he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go into Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.
“Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” 5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, 6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.”
8 Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. 9 And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.”
Within context again however highlighted:
32 And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35 Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; 36 and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38 (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.