Questions for “Bible Christians” that they can’t answer - Part 1

Catholic Convert ^ | October 25, 2013 | David Palm and Steve Ray

[NYer]

There are 38 questions + a few bonus questions. I have split them into two separate posts of 20 and 18 + bonus questions. Are you ready?

1. Where did Jesus give instructions that the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book?

2. Other than the specific command to John to pen the Revelation, where did Jesus tell His apostles to write anything down and compile it into an authoritative book?

3. Where in the New Testament do the apostles tell future generations that the Christian faith will be based solely on a book?

4. Some Protestants claim that Jesus condemned all oral tradition (e.g., Matt 15:3, 6; Mark 7:813). If so, why does He bind His listeners to oral tradition by telling them to obey the scribes and Pharisees when they “sit on Moses’ seat” (Matt 23:2)?

5. Some Protestants claim that St. Paul condemned all oral tradition (Col 2:8). If so, why does he tell the Thessalonians to “stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thes 2:15) and praises the Corinthians because they “hold firmly to the traditions” (1 Cor 11:2)?

(And why does the Protestant NIV change the word “tradition” to “teaching”?)

6. If the authors of the New Testament believed in sola Scriptura, why did they sometimes draw on oral Tradition as authoritative and as God’s Word (Matt 2:23; 23:2; 1 Cor 10:4; 1 Pet 3:19; Jude 9, 14 15)?

7. Where in the Bible is God’s Word restricted only to what is written down?

8. How do we know who wrote the books that we call Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Hebrews, and 1, 2, and 3 John?

9. On what authority, or on what principle, would we accept as Scripture books that we know were not written by one of the twelve apostles?

10. Where in the Bible do we find an inspired and infallible list of books that should belong in the Bible? (e.g., Is the Bible’s Table of Contents inspired?)

11. How do we know, from the Bible alone, that the individual books of the New Testament are inspired, even when they make no claim to be inspired?

12. How do we know, from the Bible alone, that the letters of St. Paul, who wrote to first- century congregations and individuals, are meant to be read by us as Scripture 2000 years later?

13. Where does the Bible claim to be the sole authority for Christians in matters of faith and morals?

14. Most of the books of the New Testament were written to address very specific problems in the early Church, and none of them are a systematic presentation of Christian faith and theology. On what biblical basis do Protestants think that everything that the apostles taught is captured in the New Testament writings?

15. If the books of the New Testament are “self-authenticating” through the ministry of the Holy Spirit to each individual, then why was there confusion in the early Church over which books were inspired, with some books being rejected by the majority?

16. If the meaning of the Bible is so clear—so easily interpreted—and if the Holy Spirit leads every Christian to interpret it for themselves, then why are there over 33,000 Protestant denominations, and millions of individual Protestants, all interpreting the Bible differently?

17. Who may authoritatively arbitrate between Christians who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit into mutually contradictory interpretations of the Bible?

18. Since each Protestant must admit that his or her interpretation is fallible, how can any Protestant in good conscience call anything heresy or bind another Christian to a particular belief?

19. Protestants usually claim that they all agree “on the important things.” Who is able to decide authoritatively what is important in the Christian faith and what is not?

20. How did the early Church evangelize and overthrow the Roman Empire, survive and prosper almost 350 years, without knowing for sure which books belong in the canon of Scripture?

[mlizzy]

Funny how so many Catholics are so weak in holding up the Bible as the Word of God.

Here is a recording of daily Mass from October 1 of this year. What you state is not true, at least not for this priest/deacon! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARGa3GbP9DY

[Iscool]

I don't believe Hahn's testimony...He was a bible college educated, ordained Protestant minister...He knew exactly what went on at a Catholic Mass...

If Hahn didn't preach the bible to his flock, he wasn't fit to be a minister...

[Romulus]

In the Catholic Church, the bishops are the successors of the apostles. Technically, any bishop can ordain another man as bishop, but because it would make no sense for a bishop to be alienated from the Pope, in practice it’s the Pope who selects new bishops, from names recommended to him by his representatives as well as by clergy and people of the local churches. It’s not a perfect process, but we rely on the promises of Jesus to protect his Church and preserve her in holiness.

[roamer_1]

Following Sola Scriptura alone regarding the Trinity has lead to many heresies such as Oneness Pentecostals.

Taking for granted, of course, that y'all have the authority to declare heresy - That same sense of superiority that make y'all better than them nasty Oneness Pentecostals... Using something that cannot be proven. Such is the way of divisiveness.

[roamer_1]

Mary's going to straighten out his improper view of the scripture, eh???

Never fear... I am far beyond the clutches of their goddess.

[roamer_1]

Where is your evidence??? Just one little scrap of something??? Anything???

Bupkis. But then, you knew that was coming... ; )

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“The concept of the Trinity as presently understood comes from Tradition, not Scripture. There are scriptural proof texts on which it is based, but the Trinity as we understand it comes from the Tradition of the Church.”

---

This really demonstrates your ignorance of the Holy scripture and what it contains. I’m also going to take a wild guess and conclude that you’ve never actually read anything from the church fathers on how exactly they defended the trinity.

It was not through a “I know this isn’t clear in the scripture, but we hold, from extrabiblical views, that the Trinity is true.” They base the entire argument on the scripture only.

I suggest you look up either Athanasius or Augustine on this matter and get educated on how the church actually has operated throughout the centuries.

“Following Sola Scriptura alone regarding the Trinity has lead to many heresies such as Oneness Pentecostals. “

---

We also have Roman Catholicism, yet another cult, or Mormonism, etc. The problem though isn’t that the scripture is wrong, unclear, or hard to understand. It’s man. I’ll stick with Cyril’s advice and make logical arguments from the scripture, instead of thumping my chest and hoping that infidels will take my claims of extrabiblical knowledge seriously.

“Have thou ever in your mind this seal, which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning , but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.” (Cyril of Jerusalem, Cat. Lecture 4, Ch. 17)

“Scripture without the Church that collected and defined its canon leads to death too, as these groups that deny the Trinity based on a strict literal interpretation of scripture so aptly prove.”

---

Well then, please make an argument from the position that the trinity is not true, using the scripture to do it, and we’ll see if you can beat me in a debate on the matter.

[NYer]

I’m confused by your questions .. which have nothing to do with what Jesus did for you on the cross.

The questions are straightforward and have everything to do with what Jesus did for us on the cross.

You might learn more, if you would just start by finding out who Jesus was, who were the people surrounding him at his birth and death, and what did he tell the Apostles and the public.

Perhaps you are not aware that these facts were communicated to the Apostles, the true witnesses of Jesus Christ's life, death, resurrection and ascension on earth. They passed these extraordinary events on to others who, in turn, recorded some of the information. The written record is in scripture.

Our Lord Himself wrote nothing. He commanded the Apostles not to write but to teach and preach: "Going, therefore, teach all nations" and "preach the Gospel to every creature." Christ's disciples and the Christians were commanded to hear the Church, not to read the still nonexistent or at best incomplete New Testament Scriptures: "He who hears you, hears Me."

The teaching Church was in existence long before a single line of the New Testament was written. The Apostles evangelized different peoples, not by presenting to them a copy of the New Testament which did not as yet exist, but by preaching the Gospel, the oral message of Christ to them. Thousands of men became Christians and adhered to the whole truth of God before they saw or read a single book of the New Testament.

So, I recommend a great book, “The Life of Jesus Christ”, by James Stalker. The author was a Pastor of a church in Scotland.

Thank you! And I would recommend you read:

Widely proclaimed a classic work of Christian faith, Life of Christ has been hailed as the most eloquent of Fulton J. Sheen's many books. The fruit of many years of reflection, prayer, and research, it is a dramatic and moving recounting of the birth, life, Crucifixion, and Resurrection of Christ, and a passionate portrait of the God-Man, the teacher, the healer, and, most of all, the Savior, whose promise has sustained humanity for two millenia.

Your goal should be to know Jesus .. and not get bogged down with mindless questions which have no bearing whatsoever on your relationship with Jesus Christ.

Not only do I KNOW Jesus, He comes to me each week in the Eucharist ... Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

"I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."
John 6:51

Your comments reflect the presumption that Catholics, who gave you the very Bible you read, do not have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Hence, these questions are directed towards you and your relationship with the Bible. Have you been able to answer any of them? We could all benefit from your response.

[GeronL]

The Catholic Church did not exist for centuries. Probably one of the plated churches got the delusion that they were the “true church” and the corruption grew from there.

[taxcontrol]

Ummm, you do realize that the scripture you referenced has zero relevance to the point in question. That scripture is taking about how tightly Paul clings to his faith in Christ and that even death or the threat of death will not cause him to recant his faith and separate himself from Christ.

The point in question is the fact that Catholic teaching includes prayers to Mary which directly contradicts the oral teachings of Jesus as recorded in scripture. And yes Mary is dead, as in no longer living on this earth.

[narses]

“Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”

“Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died;
this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die.

I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”

Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.

This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum
Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”

Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you?

What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?
It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.
And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”

As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him

Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?”

Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?”

He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he who would betray him, one of the Twelve.” [John 6: 49-71]

[narses]

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.

(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)

[narses]

[cva66snipe]

Who taught Paul? Under who's authority was Paul acting under? Was it under Peter's authority he was {allowed} to preach & teach? Or was Paul's authority given solely by Jesus Christ? Jesus Christ came to many persons after he went into heaven besides the chosen twelve.

Every written man written script can pass away. The Word Of GOD shall never pass away as it stands on it's own not dependent upon man for existence and the continuance. The new church is built upon what Peter was shown, what Paul was shown, and what John was shown. The infallible Holy Spirit which leads Christ followers to truth. That is the teacher. That is the corrector of mans mistakes. That is the authority. That is how a Priest can give what do they call it Homily and how a street preacher can stand on a corner one who has attended no seminary and preach The Gospel. Paul was preaching after his Baptism. Did Peter have to teach him first?

Jesus Christ and "ALL" who accept His gift of salvation are part of the church as they are The Bride and He the Bride Groom. Two will be as one.

Who told The chosen twelve what to say at Pentecost? Who told Stephen what to say as he looked into the heavens? We all were left with The Holy Spirit not just the chosen twelve. We all receive it not just priest and preachers. The Word of GOD our Manna on which our eternal beings are fed. The Bread. The Blood applied to our hearts. The wine.

Christ fulfilled the laws we could not. He made perfect what was for man impossible. Yet man yet again began just a couple hundred years later writing more laws, more rules, more conditions, more of the same burdens the scribes and Pharisees had placed upon the people. They loved their Temple. They were proud of their positions of power over others. Yet they knew not mercy and love for fellow man.

Christ said it so very plainly.

Luke ch 18 9. And he spake also this parable unto certain who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and set all others at nought: 10. Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12. I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get. 13. But the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote his breast, saying, God, be thou merciful to me a sinner. 14. I say unto you, This man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be humbled; but he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

What makes a persons righteous before GOD? Church or contrite heart? The blood of Jesus Christ or the traditions of man? GOD's Mercy through salvation offered by Grace? Or by trying to perfect & save ones own self through deeds many of which man not GOD gave us?

Jesus Christ gave believers very few commandments in His earthly walk among mankind. He came to fulfill to lift from mankind a yoke that could not be carried. Salvation doesn't require one to study books on man dogmas. I knew of preachers who could not read a word of scripture but could quote chapter and verse The Bible specifically the Gospel.

Is it good to study GOD's Word? Yes by all means. But legalism and mans laws should never, ever, take precedent over The Gospel of Jesus Christ nor compliance of such be termed a condition of ones salvation.

Jesus told Nicodemus

16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17. For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 18. He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

WE ARE SAVED THROUGH HIM! No ones church name can help them. No ones.

Anyone if The Holy Spirit is leading you to Christ don't be discourage by demands you read and conditions you must meet. Call on His Name, Ask Jesus Christ to save your eternal soul from your sins and mean what you say, Ask Him to forgive your sins and then turn from them and do your best in the rest of your earthly journey brother. Ask Jesus just as if you were a child telling your parent you did wrong, telling parent you are sorry you did wrong and mean it, and asking the parent to save you from your wrongs. It's that simple.

Will you stumble in life? Yes. Does a child not stumble? Get back up, ask forgiveness, and do your best again. Reflect on why you fell. Do your best and obey The Lord because you wish to please The Lord just as a child desires to please their parent and obey them. It's that simple. Some complicate it to the point no man could ever find it.

[impimp]

My point is this:
1. The bible speaks of the body of Christ
2. All Christians are parts of the body of Christ
3. Not even death can separate us from the body of Christ
4. St. Paul asks Christians to pray for one another- he does not say that those in Heaven are to be excluded from this.
5. Why then do some not believe it is good to ask Mary and the saints to pray for us? This is what Catholics do just as you ask a fellow parishioner at your church to pray for you.

[xzins]

Quick answers to the questions posed. As a biblical Christian, I believe the Bible to be authoritative as the inspired writings of the Apostles and Prophets, however, that does not mean I don’t think the church has authority. I just think the Apostles are a greater authority.

1. John 2:22 NIV

After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

2. John 17: 20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,

John 21: 24 This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true. 25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Luke 1: 1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

Acts 1: 1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen.

3. Hebrews 4:12 NIV

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

4. Some Protestants claim that Jesus condemned all oral tradition (e.g., Matt 15:3, 6; Mark 7:813). If so, why does He bind His listeners to oral tradition by telling them to obey the scribes and Pharisees when they “sit on Moses’ seat” (Matt 23:2)?

5. Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

6. If the authors of the New Testament believed in sola Scriptura, why did they sometimes draw on oral Tradition as authoritative and as God’s Word (Matt 2:23; 23:2; 1 Cor 10:4; 1 Pet 3:19; Jude 9, 14 15)?

7. 5Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. 6Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

8. BOTH internal and external evidence

9. Witnessed the resurrection

10. OT Books quoted or referenced in the NT. Paul referenced by Peter. Every author of a New Testament book is referenced in the New Testament. The authenticity of the books themselves was testified to by the early church and once recognized as apostolic it became the authority.

11. See 10 above

12. Peter said so. Call Paul’s writings “scripture”.

13. “Thy Word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against Thee?”

14. Because they werre faithful men; we can’t be sure of others. 2 Tim 2: 2 And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others.

15. The issue was authenticating their author.

16. The 33,000 number is spurious. As with any piece of writing there is a narrow range of acceptable deviation in understanding it.

17. The Bible

18. There is only a small range of interpretation that is reasonable given the nature of writing.

19. The Bible

20. The did not “overthrow” the Roman Empire. They outlasted it. The Word they did have was inspired.

[taxcontrol]

Jesus teaches that we are to take our concerns directly to God the father. God is the source for all. Jesus did not teach to pray to Mary, or to the Angels, or to the Apostles or anyone or anything else.

Praying to anyone else, even Mary, is second best at best, and at worst, puts an emphasis on Mary that borders on worship and reverence as a god. Paul teaches us to pray FOR one another, not TO one another.

To believe that conducting a ritualized prayer (hail Marys, prayers to saints, etc.) can evoke, communicate with, derive power from, or alter earthly events in any way, by calling on those long dead, does not in any way resemble the Lord’s prayer and Jesus teaching on prayer. In fact, it far more resembles sorcery in that it calls upon spirits to do one’s bidding.

[Salvation]

What will you say to Jesus when he asks you if you really said that about HIS mother? I wonder?

[impimp]

Well then how do you interpret these writings:
1 Timothy 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people,

James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

Ephesians 6:18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,

1 Thessalonians 5:25 Brothers, pray for us.

Paul wrote these passages after Jesus’ resurrection. Are you saying that Paul didn’t have a good understanding of the proper way to pray? Paul does NOT ask us to only pray for one another. He also, based on Thessalonians, believes that it is OK to ask others to pray for us. This is a prayer in itself.

Do you know the words to the Hail Mary? It is a prayer asking Mary to pray for us. It is not a prayer of adoration, which is due to God alone.

And in the OT:
Job 42:10 And the Lord restored the fortunes of Job, when he had prayed for his friends. And the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.

[CyberAnt]

Wow!! So much info .. so little time.

Good luck with your “questions”. I hope they bring you comfort.

Jesus has already answered all my questions.