Replies

BoM: “And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins” (Alma 11:37)

The Bible: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us…that being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life” (Titus 3:5)

Apostle Spencer Kimball: “However good a person’s works, he could not be saved had Jesus not died for his and everyone else’s sins. And however powerful the saving grace of Christ, it brings exaltation to no man who does not comply with the works of the gospel” (Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 207).

Spencer W. Kimball was 100% correct. It is by the grace of Jesus of Christ that we are saved. But, we have to qualify for that grace.

Matt 12: 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

This is repeated over and over in the books of the Bible. Argue it all day long, but you can't get around it.

But, we have to qualify for that grace.

Oh???

Like THIS???

HR>

What Joseph Smith Means to Us (From: various sources )

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

we have to qualify for that grace.

ALL: Here's a Mormon turning the very meaning of the word "grace" -- something that is given -- on its head by claiming we have to earn, work for, merit, etc.

It's disgusting.

Qualify for grace?

Um...

No...

Grace is a gift freely given...

So what is the “...will of my Father...”?

John 6:40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Besides, argue the Book of Abraham and the false interpretation thereof all day long, you still can’t get around it.

A false prophecy makes a false prophet.

Spencer W. Kimball was 100% correct. It is by the grace of Jesus of Christ that we are saved. But, we have to qualify for that grace.

Ya know there's two interesting quotes in the Eagle Gate published book, Inspirational Quotes from Latter-day Saint Women:

* "The Lord's forgiveness is ultimately an act of GRACE. It comes as his GIFT, NOT as something we have a right to, even though we must repent as a condition of receiving it." (Marie K. Hafen, Women in the Covenant, p. 21)
* "How often has God told us, My grace is sufficient for you?...He wants us to...yield ourselves to that UNEARNED BLESSING more...I think it means to depend more than we do on the enabling power of God's grace to accept and meet our daily commitments." (Carol Cornwall Madsen, Women in the Covenant, p. 7)

Looks to me, Stourme, like Mormon men could learn a LOT from some of the Mormon women out there...[Not that overall, Mormon women are less trapped in the cult of Mormonism]

Btw, even on that "condition" mentioned by Marie Hafen -- repentance:
Q: Who gets the credit for leading us to repent? God's kindness does. On what basis do I say this? Romans 2:4: Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

Stourme, if you were lost in a storm, and a person guided you home via his light...are you going to credit you stumbling home to yourself & how you “verbed”/”worked” yourself home?

Still not convinced yet from the Bible? Read these two Book of Acts passages:
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might GIVE repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. (Acts 5:31) [Uh, hint, SP: When you GIVE something of tremendous value to someone else, that's a gift of tremendous generosity...Or, are you saying God "owes" us to forgive us?]

Or: When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has GRANTED even the Gentiles repentance unto life." (Acts 11:18)

Bottom-line, S..if God didn't grant repentance to any of us; none of us would have repented!!! (He could leave us hard-hearted & not have the Holy Ghost convict us of anything!)

You see, some religionists have made repentance into yet another man-glorifying work. Yet what was revealed even by the prophet Isaiah? This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it." (Is. 30:15)

Repentance, Isaiah says, is in a similar category to rest...quietness...trust in another (not in ourselves). But guess what? Too many "religious" people are like the Israelites of old: we "would have none of it."

I guess that describes you, too...