Posted on 10/26/2013 4:56:26 AM PDT by Colofornian
I have recently been in conversation with some LDS bloggers on the topic of modern revelation. One of the bloggers expressed concern when I brought up the issue of demonic spirits having the ability to masquerade as deity or angels of light. He pointed out that if this were true how could anyone be sure that their personal revelations were of God?
He expressed precisely the concern that evangelicals have regarding the place of revelation in LDS theology. The contention of evangelicals has consistently been that modern revelation should not be exactly backwards from previous revelation. If it is, we believe it is coming from another source since the Bible warns us not to receive “another gospel” or “another Jesus” (Gal. 1:6-9, II Cor. 11:3) and we are told that Satan will try to counterfeit the true.
“Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works” (2 Corinthians 11:14-15).
Joseph Smith knew about revelations from another source. When a prophecy he made didn’t come true, he returned to his seer stone to seek another revelation and was told “Some revelations are of God: some revelations are of men: and some revelations are of the devil” (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, chapter 4). I happen to agree with this revelation (whatever source it came from) because it lines up with what we are taught in the Bible which is my standard for discerning truth from error / God from Satan.
The Bible says, “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it?” (Jer. 17:9)
For this reason, I don’t rely on feelings for a standard of discerning truth since my heart can deceive me. I trust Christ’s promise that He would preserve His words and I take His example that He never questioned the reliability of the OT scriptures when He was on earth, but He treated them as true, factual history and authoritative. Some LDS have told me that they use the Bible for their standard or that they don’t see a contradiction between the Bible and modern revelations so I will list a few examples of what I am talking about here and hopefully get some responses from LDS on how they reconcile what appear to me as diametrically opposed theology.
For example, the Bible says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast” (Eph. 2:8-9)
BoM: “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23)
The Bible: “And He said unto me, ‘My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.’ Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me” (2 Corinthians 12:9)
BoM: “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you…” (Moroni 10:32)
The Bible: “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8)
BoM: “And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins” (Alma 11:37)
The Bible: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us…that being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life” (Titus 3:5)
Apostle Spencer Kimball: “However good a person’s works, he could not be saved had Jesus not died for his and everyone else’s sins. And however powerful the saving grace of Christ, it brings exaltation to no man who does not comply with the works of the gospel” (Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 207).
What are the “works of the gospel” according to Jesus?
“Then they said unto Him, ‘What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?’ Jesus answered and said unto them, ‘This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent’” (John 6:29)
***Note: Before someone responds with James 2, I am not saying we can claim to have faith and then not manifest the works that should accompany true faith. James was written to address this specific problem as people were claiming the name of Christ, but in their works they denied Him.
Sounds like you are prepared to explain and defend the handshake test.
I would like to hear your defense of it.
Way to not answer my question. They believed Christ because he showed them - and not just because they felt good. Sheesh-
Follow the prophet, follow the prophet,
Follow the prophet; don’t go astray.
Follow the prophet, follow the prophet,
Follow the prophet; he knows the way.
Words and music: Duane E. Hiatt, b. 1937. (c) 1989 IRI
One way is to get us to deny the communication of the Holy Ghost to our spirits. To get us to rely on our own intellect.
And the way you know you are right is by your feeeelings and NOT your own evil intellect. I get it, and it describes Mormonism to a T!
Tell me Stourme, have you ever read the New Testament?
And if your answer was "Mormonism is fake" then you did NOT ask sincerely.
--MormonDude(Everyone knows THAT!)
Something ELSE is going to 'burn'; BIG time; according to Living Prophet #2!!
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
Nope; just some common sense from a MORMON.
Well that would entail them using their eviiillll intellect!
Many things were 'written down' in reply #33.
Any good reason to IGNORE them?
The MORMON way is to get a demon to convince you the HG did it.
Sure!
I doubt that YOU have a TR.
So You'll not end up in the level where GOD will reside when you croak.
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University) http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng
Ya know there's two interesting quotes in the Eagle Gate published book, Inspirational Quotes from Latter-day Saint Women:
* "The Lord's forgiveness is ultimately an act of GRACE. It comes as his GIFT, NOT as something we have a right to, even though we must repent as a condition of receiving it." (Marie K. Hafen, Women in the Covenant, p. 21)
* "How often has God told us, My grace is sufficient for you?...He wants us to...yield ourselves to that UNEARNED BLESSING more...I think it means to depend more than we do on the enabling power of God's grace to accept and meet our daily commitments." (Carol Cornwall Madsen, Women in the Covenant, p. 7)
Looks to me, Stourme, like Mormon men could learn a LOT from some of the Mormon women out there...[Not that overall, Mormon women are less trapped in the cult of Mormonism]
Btw, even on that "condition" mentioned by Marie Hafen -- repentance:
Q: Who gets the credit for leading us to repent? God's kindness does. On what basis do I say this? Romans 2:4: Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
Stourme, if you were lost in a storm, and a person guided you home via his light...are you going to credit you stumbling home to yourself & how you “verbed”/”worked” yourself home?
Still not convinced yet from the Bible? Read these two Book of Acts passages:
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might GIVE repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. (Acts 5:31) [Uh, hint, SP: When you GIVE something of tremendous value to someone else, that's a gift of tremendous generosity...Or, are you saying God "owes" us to forgive us?]
Or: When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has GRANTED even the Gentiles repentance unto life." (Acts 11:18)
Bottom-line, S..if God didn't grant repentance to any of us; none of us would have repented!!! (He could leave us hard-hearted & not have the Holy Ghost convict us of anything!)
You see, some religionists have made repentance into yet another man-glorifying work. Yet what was revealed even by the prophet Isaiah? This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it." (Is. 30:15)
Repentance, Isaiah says, is in a similar category to rest...quietness...trust in another (not in ourselves). But guess what? Too many "religious" people are like the Israelites of old: we "would have none of it."
I guess that describes you, too...
And there we are....you got that “loving feeling” I got squat.
I have known mormonism since 1962, and I am telling you it is bogus, its is blasphemy, it was started by a con man who distorted the Word of God Almighty to justify his perversions.
When JS said he was greater than Jesus, that should have been your first clue.
When it is taught that without JS there is no Salvation, that should have been another clue.
Do not be deceived S.
As a side note the apostles had zero feeling about JS, if he were around he would have been laughed at as a false prophet.
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