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To: omegatoo
Let me ask you something then. If say a woman had an abortion would she be denied communion for life without means of forgiveness and repant? Can repent bring back that life? Should she be forgiven? IMO if sincere yes of course. The problems with these doctrines on remarriage are they have no forgiveness, no way a person could repent for that matter Biblical without doing additional sin, and place laws over Grace and forgiveness.

I understand a Priest not being able to marry couples outside the church. That was explained to me 32 years ago by my cousin I asked to officiate my first marriage. That is any churches right. Preacher at the courthouse was glad to do the honors. When my wife passed 4 years later my cousin did the service for her funeral at my request. He was allowed to do that though not a Catholic service. We were Protestants.

We are all living in sin but for those whom Christ has called and accept His call and Grace our sins are forgiven. All will continue to sin until their days on this earth are no more. Such is the state of man and this cursed world we must be in till The Lord calls us home. Should we try and sin? No. It should convict our conscience. The only sin man can not be forgiven of is their final rejection of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior without accepting GOD's free gift of salvation.

Christ taught on marriage and remarrying. Yes He called it sin. He said it was because of our hearts it had been allowed.

Matthew ch 19 1After Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went southward to the region of Judea and into the area east of the Jordan River. 2Vast crowds followed him there, and he healed their sick. 3Some Pharisees came and tried to trap him with this question: “Should a man be allowed to divorce his wife for any reason?” 4“Haven’t you read the Scriptures?” Jesus replied. “They record that from the beginning ‘God made them male and female.’£ 5And he said, ‘this explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.’£ 6Since they are no longer two but one, let no one separate them, for God has joined them together.” 7“Then why did Moses say a man could merely write an official letter of divorce and send her away?”£ they asked. 8Jesus replied, “Moses permitted divorce as a concession to your hard-hearted wickedness, but it was not what God had originally intended. 9And I tell you this, a man who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery—unless his wife has been unfaithful.”£ 10Jesus’ disciples then said to him, “Then it is better not to marry!” 11“Not everyone can accept this statement,” Jesus said. “Only those whom God helps. 12Some are born as eunuchs, some have been made that way by others, and some choose not to marry for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone who can, accept this statement.”

It boils down to this. The placing of burdens upon people laws which many including those counted as righteous could not live under. It is laws without mercy. The Catholic church as I understand it sees such a marriage as a constant state of adultery. Now by the laws then if that couple divorced they would be doing what? Committing it yet again. See where I'm coming from? Their divorce would not correct it rather it would cause additional sin. Biblically there has to be a means to ask forgiveness, repent, and the sin be put behind you. IOW Go and sin no more.

When you start getting into how this sin or that sin is worse than the other we are shown one clear and precise example of unacceptable sexual behaviors and that is homosexuality which is considered an abomination, also sin is fornication, and sex outside the marriage if married aka adultery.

Same sex marriage as such is not a Holy Union as no Bible Based church by GOD's Law can marry same sex before GOD. Now then can gays be forgiven in the church and recieve communion? Yes by simply asking forgiveness and repent. Meaning turn away from the act. Right? Yet married heterosexuals who divorced and remarried then remained faithful can't be forgiven? What is missing here? It's Dogma over Grace. It denies forgiveness if that is true.

Who marries who? Marriage is a man and a woman united before GOD the two become as one. It should be IMO till death do they part and that should be the focus to make the marriage work but that takes two persons being on the same page in life. Is Joe and Jill's marriage in a church where Joe or Jill next year cheats more sacred before The Lord than Bob and Jane obtaining a license and either having an Elder or even declaring before GOD themselves man and wife more valid a marriage? Joe and Jill may well stay together till death do they part and be faithful to one another. Bob may cheat the rest of his life.

I don't condone divorce. All too often it is too easy to obtain and for invalid reasons. I'm realistic enough though to understand in this imperfect world sometimes it is the wisest option available and also in some cases is remarrying afterward. Try to do better and not repeat it. Try we must but perfect we will never be on this earth. We will always be sinners in need of a savior and His salvation during our earthly journey.

34 posted on 10/23/2013 10:19:46 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: cva66snipe

I believe God will forgive ANY sin. I believe He forgives us even when we don’t deserve to be forgiven. I believe He forgives us even when we don’t know he does. I believe He has forgiven me for things I haven’t even done yet. I think confession is not necessarily where we are forgiven, but where God lets us know we are forgiven. I also believe He is offended and hurt when we try rationalize sinful behavior by ignoring His teachings and saying, “I know God’s law says this is a sin, but I don’t think it is, and I know better, so not only will I continue to do it, I will try to convince everybody it is not a sin so I won’t feel guilty about doing it.”

I do believe some sins are worse than others, and in my opinion, non-sacramental marriage is not even in the same galaxy as ‘homosexual marriage’. But to Catholics it is still a serious sin. And being Catholic I try to avoid the big ones whenever possible, but of course, like everyone, I fail all too often. I think it is dangerous to say “that should not be a sin”, especially about the ones that are literally written in stone.

Non-Catholics are not required to believe that non-sacramental marriages are ‘living in sin’. Catholics are, or else they are Pelosi Catholics who pick and choose which sins they will agree with God about(which means not really Catholic). Catholics are not required to never sin...thank God. What we should do, is acknowledge when we stray from our Church’s teachings and try to get ourselves back on track, because we believe the Catholic Church’s teachings are God’s teachings. Could other churches’ teachings also get you to heaven? Of course.

As far as the Catholic Church’s solution to the problem of civil divorce, you can either try to get an annulment, or you just don’t get married again. If your first marriage was valid and sacramental, that cannot be undone. Your only other option is to remain unmarried or if already remarried live ‘as brother and sister’ in order to keep a family together. That is the perfect solution to an imperfect situation. Of course in the real world, things are rarely perfect. Will God understand if someone remarries outside the church? I think so. I think one big flaw in this whole situation is mentioned in the article. People are entering into non-valid marriages, and the priests and pre-Cana/etc are not working to prevent these mistakes from being made, because no one wants to counsel people NOT to get married. And the annulment process is also flawed, being cumbersome and difficult. Not that it should be easy, but some things are obvious, such as when a spouse is abusive or leaves and re-marries.

One of our parish priests always says “baby steps”. If you can’t say you are truly sorry for something that is defined by the Church as a sin, and you know you are going to keep doing it, then at least acknowledge that it is a sin and pray that you might one day be at least a little bit sorry that your actions may have offended God. Don’t redefine the sin to fit your desires...that is, I think, a much worse sin.

And like I said earlier, this all comes from a Catholic point of view. Other religions don’t have these restrictions, and I don’t think anyone here is trying to impose Catholic doctrine on non-Catholics, this is just a clarification of Catholic teaching on marriage as it pertains to Catholics. I don’t believe the Catholic Church thinks all non-Catholics go to hell...I certainly don’t. But I do believe this country is headed down that road, and not in a small part because people are trying to eliminate the idea that sin even exists.

And I am by no means an expert on Catholic teachings, I just try to follow them, and I’ve had some experience with some of this.

Love,
O2


35 posted on 10/24/2013 12:34:38 AM PDT by omegatoo (You know you'll get your money's worth...become a monthly donor!)
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