Posted on 10/20/2013 11:29:26 AM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Once upon a time, Groucho Marx hosted the popular game show, “You Bet Your Life.” At the start of the show, a “secret word” was revealed to the studio audience. If a contestant said the word during the course of the show, a reward would descend from the rafters (a one hundred dollar bill).
Whether we know it or not, we are all, Christians and non-Christians alike, contestants in the spiritual equivalent of “You Bet Your Life.” If we bet wisely, our reward is eternal life. But if we bet foolishly, we condemn ourselves to eternal damnation.
That brings to mind Pascal’s Wager, credited to the seventeenth-century French philosopher, mathematician and physicist Blaise Pascal. He famously posited that every human being bets his or her life on whether or not God exists.
“Let us,” he wrote, “weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.”
To put this in terms to which most of us can relate, even if the odds of God’s existence are, say, 1 in 175 million – the odds of winning Powerball on a single ticket – it is worth the wager.
Because, if we have bet on God, and God does not exist, we lose nothing. That is, save for indulging in certain behavior proscribed by God, including sexual promiscuity, idol worship, adultery, homosexuality (and other sexual perversions), thievery, greed, substance abuse, slander and robbery.
But if we bet against the Almighty, and indeed He does exist, we shall be cast into the lake of fire, eternally separated from God. We shall be condemned to place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Where we will be burned with unquenchable fire. Where we will be tormented day and night forever and forever.
Most of us are rationale. So we heed Pascal’s advice.
Even if we are uncertain there is a God, we hedge our bet. We respond to an altar call at some point in our lives. We say we accept Jesus as our personal Savior. We get baptized.
In so doing, we believe we have ensured our eternal security. We believe that, because we went through the ritual of being “saved,” we have a lifetime “Get Out of Hell Free” card. And that we can live our lives as it pleases us – not God – with impunity.
But what if we are wrong? What if this doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved,” espoused by many Godly pastors, preached in many purpose-driven churches, is errant? What if it actually is possible for us to forfeit our eternal salvation, to condemn ourselves to hell, by living brazenly and unrepentantly in defiance of God’s law?
That presents a corollary to Pascal’s wager, one that has not been considered by those who profess themselves Christ followers, but who are not truly leading a Christian life.
Let us call this corollary the Salvation wager, in which we weigh the gain and loss in betting on “Once Saved, Always Saved.”
Those who reject the doctrine, who believe those of us whom the Son sets free, must go and sin no more, must faithfully strive to live in obedience to God, have everything to gain if the doctrine is wrong and nothing to lose if the doctrine is right.
But those who subscribe to the doctrine, who believe that, having been saved, they can commit any and all manner of sin and it doesn’t matter in the eternal scheme of things, have hell to pay if they are wrong.
So what might Pascal advise?
That even if it’s more likely that once a person is saved, there is absolutely nothing they can do to lose their salvation, and that even if the odds are, say, 175 million to 1 that the widely-accepted doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved” is right rather than wrong, it still is wise to bet against the doctrine.
Because there are many who claim themselves Christians, who think their names have been written in the book of life, who will appear before the great white throne of judgment, who will find themselves sinners in the hands of an angry God.
They will look to Jesus and say, “Lord, Lord,” hoping He will spare them from punishment. But He will declare to them, “I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice wickedness.”
That’s a warning to those abiding unabashedly and unrepentantly in sin. They have bet their lives on “Once Saved, Always Saved.” And if they are wrong, eternal torment awaits.
Iscool's exact quote from post 76:It's not quite so simple as that...Those things would show us who we should and could not fellowship with...
Jesus associated with sinners to show them the gospel. He ate with the tax collectors and met others where they were. He did not wait for them to come to Him (initially).
Once people heard about Him they came to Him, but at first He went to them.
Sir, I offered Job 38-41 for your examination.
God Bless you Chaplain. Excellent discourse.
Mrs. Don-o: "Actually, the Christian God doesn't do that [cast the souls of unbelievers into lakes of fire]."
What I did say was:
Mrs. Don-o: "Actually, the Christian God doesn't do that [cast non-believers into a lake of fire for making the wrong educated guess.]"
The terms are not exact equivalents. In the end, unbelief is not making a wrong educated guess: it's the repudiation of Christ, which is the repudiation of the very One who came to save you.
If you can follow the analogy, it's like this old joke. You've probably heard it:
A guy's up on the roof of his house because a huge flood has inundated his city. A policeman comes by with an inflatable rescue boat and tells him to hop in. "No," the guy says, "God's gonna save me." A little while later, some National Guardsmen come by an amphibious ATV and order him in. "No need," the guy says, "God's gonna save me." Still later the Coast Guard chopper flies over and they let down a rescue harness, but the guy waves them by: "God's gonna save me."
Finally the flood waters rise over his rooftop perch, and he drowns. He shows up in the Next World and says, "Am I pi**ed off! God, why the #&#* didn't you save me??" God answers, "Bull$#@+, I sent the rescue boat, the ATV and the chopper! What the !@#* did you want??"
"Madly attemt 'th' infernal gate,
And force [his] passage to the flames."
In 1994, Diane Duyser was getting ready to eat a grilled cheese sandwich when she saw the face of the Virgin Mary staring back at her on the toasted bread. “I went to take a bite out of it, and then I saw this lady looking back at me,” she explains. Duyser wrapped the sandwich in a plastic bag and left it in her freezer for the next nine years.
Then approach the Scriptures with that attitude.
Anyone who thinks to make that accusation really needs to examine their relationship with Jesus and understand that a person who has truly been saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit wouldn’t even conceive of sinning without a guilty conscience and seeking forgiveness and change.
Really? The quotes I see here from Augustine are after his conversion. Most sources put his conversion in the summer of 386AD. Augustine's writings against Pelagius were after that time.
I keep seeing that statement but there is no one saying otherwise here.
I don’t doubt that for a minute.
Those in Revelation 21:8 are NOT Christians.
Perhaps you both are talking past each other. The way I understood Iscool’s statements was that Jesus preached to sinners where they were, but neither consorted with them, approved of them, or participated in what they were doing. I know, I know you were not claiming that either. But Jesus went there because like Matthew there were people who WANTED to hear what Jesus had to say.
I give no credence to those who go to strip bars, drink and stuff singles in garters saying they are going there to preach the Gospel. I even question the types who go in to places like that and scatter a few Jack Chick tracts on the tables and in the bathroom. Now if someone set up a soap box outside and proclaimed the Gospel and those who were spiritually sick came forward to hear, that is a different matter.
Paul used the term frequently and always in the context of salvation. He discussed the old man and the new man at length. Are you denying spiritual rebirth as a function of salvation?
John 3: 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a person once grown old be born again (duetron secondly)? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?"
That just proves that you are wrong...
If Jesus said from above, where did Nicodemus get the crazy idea about the 2nd time in the womb???
If you were right, Nicodemus would have said, 'Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb the 2nd time and be born from above???
You can not isolate a verse to translate a word...It has to be in context...I'm sure the Greeks didn't talk goofy like that...
And since the Greek word you want to translate can mean born again just as well as it can mean born from above, born again has to be the correct translation to fit the context...
That's cuz you like elk fer supper...
3Jesus answered him, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."
Can one be saved and not enter the Kingdom of God?
Don’t you just love how people are always telling you you’re wrong without telling you HOW you’re wrong?
Or telling you why they’re right?
Jesus associated with sinners to show them the gospel. He ate with the tax collectors and met others where they were. He did not wait for them to come to Him (initially).
And then I said it apparently was a matter of semantics, and obviously it still is with you...
Definition of fellowship in English
fellowship
Pronunciation: /ˈfɛlə(ʊ)ʃɪp
noun
1 [mass noun] friendly association, especially with people who share one’s interests:they valued fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community
[count noun] a group of people meeting to pursue a shared interest or aim.
[count noun] a guild or corporation.
2the status of a fellow of a college or society:a fellowship in mathematics
Are you being intentionally dense???
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