Posted on 10/20/2013 11:29:26 AM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Once upon a time, Groucho Marx hosted the popular game show, “You Bet Your Life.” At the start of the show, a “secret word” was revealed to the studio audience. If a contestant said the word during the course of the show, a reward would descend from the rafters (a one hundred dollar bill).
Whether we know it or not, we are all, Christians and non-Christians alike, contestants in the spiritual equivalent of “You Bet Your Life.” If we bet wisely, our reward is eternal life. But if we bet foolishly, we condemn ourselves to eternal damnation.
That brings to mind Pascal’s Wager, credited to the seventeenth-century French philosopher, mathematician and physicist Blaise Pascal. He famously posited that every human being bets his or her life on whether or not God exists.
“Let us,” he wrote, “weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.”
To put this in terms to which most of us can relate, even if the odds of God’s existence are, say, 1 in 175 million – the odds of winning Powerball on a single ticket – it is worth the wager.
Because, if we have bet on God, and God does not exist, we lose nothing. That is, save for indulging in certain behavior proscribed by God, including sexual promiscuity, idol worship, adultery, homosexuality (and other sexual perversions), thievery, greed, substance abuse, slander and robbery.
But if we bet against the Almighty, and indeed He does exist, we shall be cast into the lake of fire, eternally separated from God. We shall be condemned to place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Where we will be burned with unquenchable fire. Where we will be tormented day and night forever and forever.
Most of us are rationale. So we heed Pascal’s advice.
Even if we are uncertain there is a God, we hedge our bet. We respond to an altar call at some point in our lives. We say we accept Jesus as our personal Savior. We get baptized.
In so doing, we believe we have ensured our eternal security. We believe that, because we went through the ritual of being “saved,” we have a lifetime “Get Out of Hell Free” card. And that we can live our lives as it pleases us – not God – with impunity.
But what if we are wrong? What if this doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved,” espoused by many Godly pastors, preached in many purpose-driven churches, is errant? What if it actually is possible for us to forfeit our eternal salvation, to condemn ourselves to hell, by living brazenly and unrepentantly in defiance of God’s law?
That presents a corollary to Pascal’s wager, one that has not been considered by those who profess themselves Christ followers, but who are not truly leading a Christian life.
Let us call this corollary the Salvation wager, in which we weigh the gain and loss in betting on “Once Saved, Always Saved.”
Those who reject the doctrine, who believe those of us whom the Son sets free, must go and sin no more, must faithfully strive to live in obedience to God, have everything to gain if the doctrine is wrong and nothing to lose if the doctrine is right.
But those who subscribe to the doctrine, who believe that, having been saved, they can commit any and all manner of sin and it doesn’t matter in the eternal scheme of things, have hell to pay if they are wrong.
So what might Pascal advise?
That even if it’s more likely that once a person is saved, there is absolutely nothing they can do to lose their salvation, and that even if the odds are, say, 175 million to 1 that the widely-accepted doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved” is right rather than wrong, it still is wise to bet against the doctrine.
Because there are many who claim themselves Christians, who think their names have been written in the book of life, who will appear before the great white throne of judgment, who will find themselves sinners in the hands of an angry God.
They will look to Jesus and say, “Lord, Lord,” hoping He will spare them from punishment. But He will declare to them, “I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice wickedness.”
That’s a warning to those abiding unabashedly and unrepentantly in sin. They have bet their lives on “Once Saved, Always Saved.” And if they are wrong, eternal torment awaits.
The kingdom of heaven. It was the central focus of his three-year ministry.
See above.
Jesus said born "from above" He never said born "again."
The only folks who will use that argument are the "I'm going to work my way to heaven crowd", Somehow the role the indwelling Holy Spirit plays is forgotten.
Jesus said, “You’re absolutely right. Take it from me: Unless a person is born from above, it’s not possible to see what I’m pointing to—to God’s kingdom.”
John 3:3
I think I like 'born from above' better because I believe the term 'born again' has been abused over the years. Thanks for pointing that out.
A "mystery" in the Bible always means something that WAS hidden but in NOW been fully revealed. The dispensation of the grace of God was a mystery, hid in God, in other ages, until revealed to Paul (Eph. 3:2,3,5,6,9) is one example.
The mystery of godliness means that it was hidden in time past in God, but is now fully revealed. He has revealed everything about Himself and His program for mankind. Pay particular attention to "preached unto Gentiles". That is the key to this mystery. That is the dispensation of the grace of God, that was given to Paul by direct revelation of Jesus Christ. The fact that God would make of Jews and Gentiles One New Man, taking down the middle wall of partition that He had set up, to separate us, was a huge mystery, until Paul was made the apostle to the Gentiles and the Church the Body of Christ was formed. NOW the world is on equal footing before God. That mystery is found from Romans through Philemon.
With this, God has revealed His plan for mankind, up to and including the Gentiles.
You have rightly described the hatred for sin that believers who recognize salvation by grace, alone, have. It is repugnant and disturbing to know with Paul that we of all people should know better and do better. We realize that there is just still something at work in our flesh which will not die until the body dies. We realize the precious blood spilled for us should be so significant, so important that it should shame us into complete avoidance of all sin. Yet, we still see the evil at work in us. (Rom 7).
But, the view this OP represents holds perhaps a greater danger. And, it is so subtle as to rarely be considered. That is, when one says, "...we cannot, every day,...or commit other sins and assume God's automatic forgiveness." it belies the fact the person may believe they are not actually doing just that. They may not realize that their own lives are saturated, immersed in sin at every moment.
They are under the false assumption that if they are not physically committing sin, or if they are actively resisting sin, this is the equivalent to righteousness. But, nothing could be further from the truth. The fact that their minds touch on adultery, drunkeness, false accusations, gossip, even momentarily renders them just as guilty as the person engaging in these acts. The very fact they must "resist" sin proves they are loaded with the appetite for it. This is not righteousness and deserves the same death as commiting it. They may not produce the same "death" on those around them as those who do commit them physically, but even the reomotest thought of it, the slightest whiff of it, the smallest of passing idea is just as evil as the act...so says Jesus.
Such shortsightedness is what Paul is pointing out in Romans 1 & 2, rendering every man/woman guilty, at all moments. There is no righteousness in men. There is no hope in men. Unless God, by His free grace, grants faith, and forgives, there is no hope. Unless He clothes us Jesus' righteousness, there is nothing to adopt. Once God opens eyes and rescues a man by His divine choice, that man/woman is safe because of Him...not themselves.
Paul's point is not "once saved, always saved." (although this is true). His point is the fact that when one is saved BY GOD, God does not change His mind. The rescue is simply a product of His own power and promise. It is no longer in the hands of the man/woman. They could not get themselves into salvation; they cannot get themselves out.
To those on the outside of this understanding, this may seem like a "free ticket" to sin. But, they do not realize they are holding a much more dangerous view..."at least I do not sin like those people". Oh, yes, you do...all the time. Now what?
Born "from Above" Vs. "Again. The Greek word Anothon occurs exactly 12 times in 12 verses in the New Testament. The four words we are concerned with are Anothon which the Catholics contend means "From above" and the Fundies contend means again. The second word is Apanow, which means above/ over.
The third word is Palon- that really does mean again and Deuteron that means secondly. If the Protestants are correct when we look at each of these verses we should be able to substitute either word and have it make perfect sense. I have included several verses that use the word Palon to document the common use of that word. You will also notice that in John 3:4 that Nicodemus does not use either Palon or Anothon, but rather Deuteron, meaning secondly or second.
Matt 27:50 But Jesus cried out again (Palon) in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit.
Matt 27:51 And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (Anthon) to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split.
Mark 15:38 The veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (above anthon) to bottom.
Luke 1:3 I too have decided, after investigating everything accurately anew (From their source anthon), to write it down in an orderly sequence for you, most excellent Theophilus,
John 3: 3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above (Anthon)."
John 3: 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a person once grown old be born again (duetron secondly)? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?"
John 3:31 The one who comes from above (Anthon) is above (Anthon) all. The one who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of earthly things. But the one who comes from heaven (is above all).
John 19:11 Jesus answered (him), "You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above (Anthon). For this reason the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin."
John 19:23 When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his clothes and divided them into four shares, a share for each soldier. They also took his tunic, but the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from the top (Anthon) down.
Acts 26:5 They have known about me from the start (Anthon) From the first), if they are willing to testify, that I have lived my life as a Pharisee, the strictest party of our religion.
Galatians 4:9 but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again (Palon) Untranslated word Anthon (anew) to the weak and destitute elemental powers? Do you want to be slaves to them all over again (Palon)?
James 1: 17 all good giving and every perfect gift is from above (Anthon), coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no alteration or shadow caused by change.
James 3: 15 Wisdom of this kind does not come down from above (Anthon) but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.
James 3: 17But the wisdom from above (Anthon) is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, without inconstancy or insincerity.
All 12 verses with the Greek Translation Matt 27:50But Jesus cried out again (Palon) in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit. (Jesus did not cry out from above, he cried out a second time)
Mat 27:50 o de ihsouv palin kraxav fwnh megalh afhken to pneuma
Matt 27:51And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (Anothon) to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split,(The veil was not torn "again" it was torn from top to bottom)
Mat 27:51kai idou to katapetasma tou naou esxisqh ap eiv duo apo anwqen ewv katw eiv duo kai h gh eseisqh kai ai petrai esxisqhsan
Mark 15:38 The veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (above Anothon) to bottom. (See above, no pun intended)
Mar 15:38 kai to katapetasma tou naou esxisqh eiv duo ap apo anwqen ewv katw
Luke 1:3 I too have decided, after investigating everything accurately anew (From their source Anothon), to write it down in an orderly sequence for you, most excellent Theophilus,(This is the only verse that you could conceivably substitute "Again", but the colloquial "From their source makes better sense)
Luke 1:3 edoxe edoxen kamoi parhkolouqhkoti anwqen pasin akribwv kaqexhv soi grayai kratiste qeofile
John 3: 3Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above (Anothon)."(Verse in contention, no comment required)
John 3:3 apekriqh o ihsouv kai eipen autw amhn amhn legw soi ean mh tiv gennhqh anwqen ou dunatai idein thn basileian tou qeou
John 3: 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a person once grown old be born again (duetron secondly)? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?" (Here is where the Prots really put their foot in it. Nicodemus never says again (Palon) he says Secondly (Deuteron)
John 3:4 legei prov auton o o nikodhmov pwv dunatai anqrwpov gennhqhnai gerwn wn mh dunatai eiv thn koilian thv mhtrov autou deuteron eiselqein kai gennhqhnai
John 3:31The one who comes from above (Anothon) is above (Apanow) all. The one who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of earthly things. But the one who comes from heaven (is above all).(Those that come" again" are "again" all, Makes no sense at all.)
Joh 3:31 o anwqen erxomenov epanw pantwn estin o wn ek thv ghv ek thv ghv estin kai ek thv ghv lalei o ek tou ouranou erxomenov epanw epanw pantwn estin estin
John 19:11Jesus answered (him), "You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above (Anothon). For this reason the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin." (Pilate was not given power again, he was given it from above, God allowed him to have power)
John 19:11 apekriqh autw o ihsouv ouk eixev exousian oudemian kat emou oudemian ei mh hn soi dedomenon soi anwqen dia touto o paradouv paradidouv me soi meizona amartian exei
John 19:23 When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his clothes and divided them into four shares, a share for each soldier. They also took his tunic, but the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from the top (Anothon) down. (The tunic was not woven again, it was woven from the top down)
John 19:23 oi oun stratiwtai ote estaurwsan ton ihsoun elabon ta imatia autou kai epoihsan tessara merh ekastw stratiwth merov kai ton xitwna hn de o xitwn arafov arrafov ek twn anwqen ufantov di olou
Acts 26:5 They have known about me from the start (Anothon, From the first), if they are willing to testify, that I have lived my life as a Pharisee, the strictest party of our religion. (They did not know about Paul "again" they new about him from the beginning)
Act 26:5 proginwskontev me anwqen ean qelwsi qelwsin marturein oti kata thn akribestathn airesin thv hmeterav qrhskeiav ezhsa farisaiov
Galatians 4:9 but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again (Palon) Untranslated word Anothon (anew) to the weak and destitute elemental powers? Do you want to be slaves to them all over again (Palon)? (The phrase "from above" clearly does not fit here)
Gal 4:9 nun de gnontev qeon mallon de gnwsqentev upo qeou pwv epistrefete palin epi ta asqenh kai ptwxa stoixeia oiv palin anwqen douleuein qelete
James 1:17 all good giving and every perfect gift is from above (Anothon), coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no alteration or shadow caused by change. (Is the gift coming "again", no it is coming from God, who is "From above")
Jas 1:17 pasa dosiv agaqh kai pan dwrhma teleion anwqen estin katabainon apo tou patrov twn fwtwn par w ouk eni parallagh h trophv aposkiasma
James 3:15 Wisdom of this kind does not come down from above (Anothon) but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. (See Previous)
Jas 3:15 ouk estin auth h sofia anwqen katerxomenh alla all epigeiov yuxikh daimoniwdhv
James 3:17 But the wisdom from above (Anothon) is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, without inconstancy or insincerity. (Again the wisdom is "from above", not "again")
Jas 3:17 h de anwqen sofia prwton men agnh estin epeita eirhnikh epieikhv eupeiqhv mesth eleouv kai karpwn agaqwn adiakritov kai anupokritov
Conclusion: The only reasonable definition of the word "Anthon" is "From above/ from the source or beginning", There is a perfectly good word for "again" but, neither Nicodemus, nor Jesus use that word, instead Nicodemus uses Deuteron. Nicodemus apparent confusion results from Jesus' use of the word "Born" not "From above" Anothon
I am neither Catholic nor Fundamentalist. But I do appreciate you providing the Greek basis for that. I have a friend who is Eastern Orthodox. I will run it by him to get his opinion on it. Thanks.
‘Kingdom of heaven’ and ‘salvation’ are not synonymously interchangeable.
We can discuss paradox and hoops all day, but never forget God loves us and wants us to be reconciled with Him:
1 John 4:16 - And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1 John 4:8 - He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
1 John 4:10 - Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins.
Ephesians 2:4 - But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
1 Corinthians 13:4 - Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1 John 4:18 - There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Hebrews 12:6 - For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Romans 8:39 - Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
Colossians 3:14 - And above all these things [put on] charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Ephesians 1:4 - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Romans 5:5 - And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
PapaBear3625: Thanks for the beautiful quotation from Marcus Aurelius!
daniel1212 & NCLaw441: Beautiful sentiments - but sadly, most Christians don't think as you do.
MWS: Thanks for the very measured response!
Mrs. Don-o: "Actually, the Christian God doesn't do that [cast the souls of unbelievers into lakes of fire]."
Well, according to the article posted here (to which I was responding), He does exactly that:
But if we bet against the Almighty, and indeed He does exist, we shall be cast into the lake of fire, eternally separated from God. We shall be condemned to place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Where we will be burned with unquenchable fire. Where we will be tormented day and night forever and forever.
Bryanw92: "No, it doesn’t. They die and go to sleep."
But there are other Biblical passages which seem to assert the opposite.
Louis Foxwell: "I am saying precisely what Jesus and Paul said."
Even supposing that one had a transcript of an audio recording, I don't think that one can safely make that claim.
Greetings_Puny_Humans: Thanks for the thoughtful response!
Regards,
Yes VERY clear indeed. I will note Jesus summed up the whole Law and the prophets. Jesus also said,
"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
So if you are perfect and follow each day without fail the commandments Jesus established (you quoted them above), then you will have eternal life.
If you say you do in fact 100% follow the above, and are perfect like the Father in Heaven, then John would say we lie. Plus I would not want to stand next to you when the lightening bolt comes down:)
As Paul states, the Law makes us knowledgeable of our sin. Therefore it was necessary for the Son of God to shed His Royal Blood, die and rise on the 3rd day for the remission of our sins.
>>Bryanw92: “No, it doesn’t. They die and go to sleep.”
>>But there are other Biblical passages which seem to assert the opposite.
Yes there are, if they are taken out of context. Everything must be read in context, and in the context of the gospels.
Jesus' answer? He told us to love our enemies (tough to do I know). God the Father sent His only Son Jesus Christ to earth to be mocked, spit on, tortured, beaten, nailed to a cross and die. Then He was put in a tomb that could not hold Him and rose three days later and now sits at the Right Hand of the Father. All this was done for dirty nasty sinners like us. And God simply tells us to love those who hate us.
That's like some kind of foreign language or codespeak to me.
Kind of knocks the snot out of your out of context verse.
His statements were not out of context. Your's are. No one is saying we are not to bring the Good News to the sick in spirit. We are to proclaim the Gospel to them. We are not to share in the sinful practices of those who are 'sick.'
Please read John chapter 3. Summary? Born again is Born from Above---God. Those men you listed were all men and if people gained their faith from them and not God, then they have serious issues.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.