Mary 'can only bring us to God,' expert says as entrustment nears

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com ^ | October 11, 2013 | Elise Harris

[NKP_Vet]

Vatican City, Oct 11, 2013 / 07:25 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Anticipating Pope Francis' entrustment of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary on Oct. 13, a specialist in Marian apparitions reflected on how the Blessed Mother serves to bring people to Jesus.

“It is necessary to have recourse to the Virgin because she can only bring you to God. That's her whole mission. She has nothing of self in it at all. She lives only for God and to bring you to God,” said Marian expert Tim Tindal-Robertson during an Oct. 10 interview with CNA.

Tindal-Robertson is currently the national president in England of the World Apostolate of Fatima, an international association of the faithful which was erected by the Pontifical Council for the Laity in 2010.

Speaking of the significance of Pope Francis’ decision to entrust the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Tindal-Robertson said that “the Pope has judged that in the year of faith this is a very appropriate moment” to focus on Mary’s presence in the Church.

[CynicalBear]

First let me say a hearty welcome! I think you are right that a discussion of what the gospel is could be an interesting discussion.

[Steelfish]

This is beyond crazy. It’s plain stupid. You have heard of the incorrupt body of saints. Mary was conceived without original sin. And the Body of Christ, you say was corrupt as well. You can’t even claim to be a Christian. Christ rose body and soul into Heaven.

Before you rush into stuff that angels fear to tread I suggest you do some serious reading by some great theologians. Try reading Aquinas or Pope Gregory the Great. If not, read some books by Benedict XVI who has been called the “Theological Einstein” of our times. For starters try:

1. On The Way To Jesus Christ
2. Jesus, The Apostles & The Early Church
3. Jesus of Nazareth
4. The Infancy Narratives.

You will find oceans of scriptural, historical, and exegetical exercises and references here.

But then again, I don’t expect you will. Low information Christians prefer the Joel Osteen- Billy Graham stuff not unlike the corner street FourSquare Church pastors.

Catholic dogma comes from historical sources, revelation, sacred tradition, and scripture. Catholic don’t believe that Scripture is the only source of our faith. For the first 60-100 years, the oral tradition prevailed. The Bible did not fall from the skies. The early Church fathers sorted out the various books and written tracts and approved the selection of texts we now call the Bible.

Mary was assumed into Heaven Body and Soul. Go read up on Lourdes and Fatima. This was an ancient received tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Church called “dormition,” which means falling asleep. The bodies of all the Apostles were found and who except for John, were all executed. Mary’s body was never found and the early oral tradition was just like Christ the “new” Adam, Mary as the “new” Eve did not have he elements of our earth corrupt her body.

[CynicalBear]

I see what you did there! Nice job!

[verga]

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

This is a perfect example of why sola scriptura is a a bad idea.

Jesus said THE flesh profiteth ...

He did not say MY or even THIS flesh....

Every single part of John 6 is about the flesh of Jesus being able to give (eternal) life to the world.

Notice the words of Peter John 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

Jesus own direct words with out benefit of eisegesis' say that we must consume HIS FLESH.

[CynicalBear]

Oh good grief. Just what flesh were they talking about in that conversation anyway? That has to go among the lamest responses I have gotten. If that’s what you want to believe you are eating who am I to stop you? Catholics do lot’s of unscriptural and anti scriptural things so I suppose that just fits right in there.

[verga]

You have been told the truth, I can do no more except to pray that the Holy Spirit softens your heart. I will offer my Rosary for you tonight.

[smvoice]

"I can do no more except to pray that the Holy Spirit softens your heart."

..so far..so good...

"I will offer my Rosary for you tonight."

And there it goes...

[redleghunter]

But then again, I don’t expect you will. Low information Christians prefer the Joel Osteen- Billy Graham stuff not unlike the corner street FourSquare Church pastors.

Steelfish, there is 'that' element out there of easy believism. No doubt. Then you have your prosperity false gospel types. Sterotyping Prots according to your design above is well, a shotgun blast.

Kind of hard to call Bible believing Christians who study the Bible daily as "low information." I guess it all depends on the reliability of the information you are talking about. Are most Prots here low information on Roman Catholic traditions...yeah probably. However, I do know the RC traditions quite well. I was born and raised a Roman Catholic and attended RC school through college...It was even a Jesuit University to boot.

The greatness of RC education is they teach you how to think not what to think. At least that was the RC tradition I grew up in. My family was also a Bible thumping RC family. So I cut my teeth on the Bible at an early age. So when I came of age and was Confirmed I started to see inconsistencies between the Words of God recorded in the Bible and the doctrines of the Catholic church.

I went in with the entry argument that the closer data is to Jesus and the apostles the more accurate it has to be. As the distance of data goes further away from Jesus and the apostles we must be cautioned of the injecting of the traditions of not only men but the traditions, religions and influences of societies.

[Steelfish]

Well, I guess by your lights all the great theologians have gotten it wrong including saints and martyrs of the Church.

You may wish to consult the following list of converts to the Church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_converts_to_Catholicism

[CynicalBear]

I rebuke any offering of any pagan rosary mentioning my name. In Jesus name I rebuke that pagan symbol.

[rwa265]

Oh good grief. Just what flesh were they talking about in that conversation anyway?

---

In John 6:63, Jesus is talking about earthly flesh. This is different from His flesh, which He says in John 6:51 is the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever, and the bread that He will give is His flesh for the life of the world.

In John 3, Jesus says to Nicodemus: “If I tell you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?”

In John 6, Jesus is evidently telling us about heavenly things.

I don’t understand it. As the Lord tells us in Isaiah 55, “my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways. As high as the heavens are above the earth, so high are my ways above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.” But I believe it. If you don’t want to believe it, that’s your prerogative. But please allow us to believe what Jesus tells us without continually badgering us about it.

Peace

[CynicalBear]

>> In John 6:63, Jesus is talking about earthly flesh. This is different from His flesh, which He says in John 6:51 is the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever, and the bread that He will give is His flesh for the life of the world.<<

Once again a lame attempt to try to get us to think that Jesus changed the subject with absolutely no indication of such. What’s up with those anyway? It makes no sense other than a carnal attempt to somehow justify belief in the RCC.

>> But please allow us to believe what Jesus tells us without continually badgering us about it.<<

You can believe what you want to but when you come in here teaching error we are going to show scripture truth.

[redleghunter]

I am not one to count heads of who is or is not going to or leaving the RCC. You seem a bit defensive in what I posted, and I don’t know why. All those great theologians you quote knew the Bible is the ultimate authority.

Why wouldn’t the Bible be such an authority? The Bible contains the account of our Creator’s creation; Deliverance from the great flood; The demonstrated faithfulness of Abraham as father of many peoples; The Law given to Moses and Israel; The Great Words of God throughout numerous books of Prophecy; And the greatest of all The NT with the account of our Redemption through Jesus Christ. All in the Bible.

The Bible was not made authoritative by men wrapping it in a canon. Those men knew the Scriptures were already authoritative. The could hear the Voice of The Good Shepherd in Gospels like Mark, Luke, Matthew and John, but not in Thomas and others.

[rwa265]

>>Once again a lame attempt to try to get us to think that Jesus changed the subject with absolutely no indication of such.<<

---

I am not trying to get you to think anything. I am just reiterating what Jesus clearly says; that He is the living bread that came down from heaven, that whoever eats this bread will live forever, and the bread that He will give is His flesh for the life of the world.

>>You can believe what you want to but when you come in here teaching error we are going to show scripture truth.<<

---

You have made it abundantly clear what you believe. The problem is that what you believe does not make sense. It just does not follow that the flesh Jesus says is of no avail is the same flesh that He says He gives for the life of the world. His flesh is not carnal, it is the bread of life that came down from heaven. This is what scripture clearly tells us. If you want to believe something different is scripture truth, fine. But what you believe is contrary to our belief, and no amount of badgering on your part will convince us otherwise. So let’s agree to disagree.

Peace

[redleghunter]

You may wish to consult the following list of converts to the Church.

Steelfish you may want to check out your posted list. Found the below one interesting:

"Vincent Price: American actor. Converted to Catholicism to marry his third wife, Australian actress Coral Browne. (She became an American citizen for him.) He reportedly lost interest in the faith after her death.[235]"

[Steelfish]

Of course. Faith is one thing. Reason is another. It appears he would have lost faith no matter what religion he believed in. I had a very devout Methodist uncle who lost his faith when a hurricane took out his house.

[Steelfish]

Fine so long as you are not suggesting that these theologians were either dishonest or were all wrong in their interpretation of the Bible.

[Iscool]

Mary was conceived without original sin.

Nonsense...Another Catholic fable...

And the Body of Christ, you say was corrupt as well. You can’t even claim to be a Christian. Christ rose body and soul into Heaven.

Jesus' body was wearing out...Jesus' body was changed from a corrupt body to an incorrupt body when he was resurrected...You can learn that if you read a bible...

Catholic dogma comes from historical sources, revelation, sacred tradition, and scripture.

That needs to be repaired...

Catholic dogma comes from historical sources, revelation, tradition, and scripture.

Now, it's a little more accurate...

Catholic don’t believe that Scripture is the only source of our faith.

It doesn't matter what Catholics believe...What God teaches is what is relevant...

Before you rush into stuff that angels fear to tread I suggest you do some serious reading by some great theologians. Try reading Aquinas or Pope Gregory the Great. If not, read some books by Benedict XVI who has been called the “Theological Einstein” of our times. For starters try:

I delved into these authors enough to find out that they pervert the scriptures...I won't waste any more time with them...

Mary was assumed into Heaven Body and Soul.

Fable...

Go read up on Lourdes and Fatima.

I did...Bible says to test the spirits...I did and the ghost of Mary failed the test...

Mary’s body was never found and the early oral tradition was just like Christ the “new” Adam, Mary as the “new” Eve did not have he elements of our earth corrupt her body.

Not an ounce of evidence...More fables...

[verga]

Steelfish, there is 'that' element out there of easy believism.

You are describing the vast majority of protestants on this forum. Virtually none of them is even remotely capable of an intellectual discussion.

I have tried several times to engage them in discussions about, the nature of the incarnation, the Trinity, infinity and eternity in relation to the Godhead, among others. The only response I get (paraphrased) "It ain't in the Bible"

Several months ago there was a question about the location of heaven. Several of the protestant genius's state unequivocally that it was "in space." When I asked where specifically, so we could get a good look with the Hubble telescope they fell silent.

[verga]

Prime example of the problems with Sola Scriptura, practiced by people with no formal training and no understanding of the Greek.