An American Dream Revealed:Our Transition of Faith (From Mormon)

Blog ^ | Thursday, October 10, 2013 | Carl and Sherry Wimmer

[colorcountry]

Our Transition of Faith

Everyone knows the story about our political ups and downs, if you don’t you can read back to the beginning of our blog. But what no one knows, and what we didn’t expect to come out at this time is the story about our religious transition.

Recently, a door opened that offered Carl an opportunity to run for the Utah State Legislature, a position that he once held and thoroughly enjoyed. My first instinct was to say, “H*ll no!” But, since I don’t use that sort of language, I settled for, “I know you’ll make the right decision, Dear.” Then I went into a three hour lecture on how simple and sweet life has been this past year.

Our Utah House Representative recently accepted the position as Lieutenant Governor, which means that his seat is now open for someone else. Being a person with much political ambition, Carl’s phone immediately blew up with calls from political friends as well as those in the media wondering if he was going to run for the position.

I’ll be honest; the pull to politics is strong, even for me. I enjoyed the five years he was in the legislature. It was a wonderful opportunity for our entire family as we grew leaps and bounds in our knowledge of the working government and the issues. We developed many lasting friendships as well as a strong sense of patriotism. It was an amazing overall experience.

The Congressional loss brought about a different kind of opportunity for our family. It taught us humility. Faced with multiple options at the time of the loss, we decided to make decisions without really seeking God’s help. Boy, did He teach us! He allowed us to stumble to an all-time low in order to convince us to look up and say, “God, you are in control.” As soon as we accepted this knowledge, the doors opened for the right path that we needed to follow. That path brought us to Gunnison.

Fast forward a year, and now we are faced with another open door to politics. What a tricky spot to be in as we have questioned whether this is a test or an opportunity. Ultimately, and with much faith, we have decided that this is not the right time. However, God works in mysterious ways, and this wasn’t all for nothing.

I mentioned that the media has been inquiring about his status. Salt Lake Tribune writer, Paul Rolly, finally reached Carl and asked about his religious beliefs of all things. Specifically, “Have you left the LDS Church?”

The answer is yes. Yes, we have left the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as Mormonism. We did so this year, but looking back, the process that got us here has been ongoing for many years. It wasn’t that we were lazy in our religion or faith, nor was it because we were offended or desired to be sinful. The reasons are much deeper and varied but won’t be shared at this time. Rest assured we have felt God’s guiding hands through the entire process.

Most of our family and some of our friends already knew about our transition, but many close and very dear friends did not know. We were not trying to keep it a secret; rather we were waiting for the right opportunity to tell others.

Some of you will be shocked, possibly hurt that we have made such a decision. Those of you who are active and faithful members in the church will sincerely question why, but you may hesitate to ask in fear of learning our response. A few will choose to believe we have been misled by Satan. The day I told my family about our decision, my brother posted a picture on Facebook of the “Kool-aid” man in jest. There’s no doubt that we will be watched closely by many and even judged by some. But there will also be those who are going through a personal crisis of faith who will reach out to us for help.

Although our political beliefs in individual liberty and freedom are as strong as ever, this was not the time for us to enter back into politics. However, the door was opened for a reason. We would love to share our testimony of faith to those who are seeking a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

-Sherry

[Elsie]

... but nver really one and never really three non-biblical ...

Aw heck; lets sing a song about GODS!

---

(click)

Praise to the Man!

 

 

 

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

[Elsie]

...Mingling with Gods...

Just WHO ya gonna MINGLE with?

Why...

All yer MORMON buds that have gone on to be GODS themselves!!!

---

The Doctrine and Covenants

 

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 

---

 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in ^amarriage; but are appointed angels in ^bheaven, which angels are ministering ^cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are ^aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that ^acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man ^amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and ^beverlasting covenant, and it is ^csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of ^dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ^ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit ^fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s ^gBook of Life, that he shall commit no ^hmurder whereby to shed innocent ⁱblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their ^jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the ^kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from ^aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be ^bgods, because they have ^call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my ^alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For ^astrait is the gate, and narrow the ^bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the ^clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that ^awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is ^aeternal lives—to ^bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath ^csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25^aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the ^bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they ^creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.

[Elsie]

The mormon tendency to adopt an attitude of superiority is in full view here.

 

MORMON

ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY

 

  1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
  2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t!
  3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t!
  4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal!
  5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers!
  6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t!
  7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t.
  8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
  9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. —                           -- You can’t.
12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- 

                           -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t.
18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably                              -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going!
21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where.
22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t.
23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple

                            -- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy  (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)

26.  I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).

 

 

Revision 46.5

Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.

All rights liable to be abused.

[Elsie]

AMEN!!!

And also the Mormons that will be reading this thread; but never post on it.

The Holy Spirit is working on a LOT of them!!

[elcid1970]

Oh, pay him no mind, he’s just running around like a Shiz with his head cut off.

Or have I used that one before?

;^)

[Elsie]

I just put in 2¢ worth.

[Elsie]

Yes, you have. But our lurkers have NO clue as to what you are talking about!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiz

(Heck; probably a bunch of our MORMONs don’t either!)

[Elsie]

Some folks think THIS might be a BAD translation...

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/15.30-31?lang=eng#5

[Elsie]

Some folks think THIS might be a BAD translation...

 

...but that does NOT seem at all possible.

 

---

---

"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

---

"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

---

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

---

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

---

"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

---

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

 

 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)

---

Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

 

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

---

"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.

---

---

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“THEN a person (me) will reach for a more readable and understandable version.”

---

The KJV is extremely readable and understandable. Actually, I think the language was designed that way too. It’s Shakespeare that actually makes you pause.

[elcid1970]

You just can’t make this Shiz up!

;^)

[restornu]

“Three in one, sometimes three, sometimes one,”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, sorry, there is only one God, and you will not become a God after you die, nor get to have sex for all eternity to populate your own planet.

I know it’s a downer, but it’s time to move on.

****

Amazing they deny the sons of God the Lord's own words; who are the children of God and if children of God then heirs; heirs of God (the Father), and joint-heirs with (the son Jesus) Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

By saying there is only one God in the God head is denying either the Son Jesus Christ or the Heavenly Father. Now Jesus has something to say on this topic... Why he Jesus came to earth was 1- to do the will of His Father, and 2- Jesus also said, who so ever that denied his Father

Excerpt

John 14 (Jesus said His Father is greater than Him)
....I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 5 (the accusers have not changed today denying the fact that Jesus has a Father only today many have distorted the two personages trying to make them one when there are really two.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him

Romans 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

[Elsie]

The KJV is extremely readable and understandable.

For some.

[Elsie]

Hi Resty!

I thought you might have died, too!

Aren’t you glad cool weather is finally getting here so you can eat meat again?

[Elsie]

No End to Gods

if J. C. was the Son of God & John discd. that God the Far. of J. C. had a far. you may suppose that he had a Far. also---where was ther ever a Son witht. a Far.---where ever did tree or any thing spring into existence witht. a progenitor-- & every thing comes in this way--Paul says that which is Earthyly is in likeness of that which is Heavenly-- hence if J. had a Far. can we not believe that he had a Fa.r also--I despise the idea of being scared to death--I want you all to pay particr. attent. J. sd. as the Far. wrought precisely in the same way as his Far. had done bef-- as the Far. had done bef--he laid down his life & took it up same as his Far. had done before--he did as he was sent to lay down his life & take it up again & was then committed unto him the keys &c I know it is good reasoning--

 

 

Much, MUCH more here...  http://www.boap.org/LDS/Parallel/1844/16Jun44.html

[ejonesie22]

Do you are a polytheist... I wish you guys would make up your minds...

[BlueDragon]

He wasn’t “running around” with his head cut off -— he was only doing push-ups.

[elcid1970]

On that note it’s 8:00 a.m. & time for me to fix a Mormon breakfast, “Shiz on a shingle”.

;^)

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“Amazing they deny the sons of God the Lord’s own words; who are the children of God and if children of God then heirs; heirs of God (the Father), and joint-heirs with (the son Jesus) Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.”

---

By “glorified together” you must mean, “become a polygamous god of your own planet together.” The obvious response is, “before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me” (Isa 43:10), which effectively puts out the Mormon idea of there being an eternal ladder of previous gods giving rise to new gods. And again, “Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any” (Isa 44:8). And yet you would have us believe that there are three separate gods in the Godhead. And again, “For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?”(Psa 18:31). And yet, you also would be a God, assuming you paid all your tithes.

“John 14 (Jesus said His Father is greater than Him)
....I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

---

And yet from the same book:

“[Jesus] said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God”(Joh 5:18). And again, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word is God” (John 1:1). And again, this time from Revelation, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Rev 1:8).

Now if Christ is almighty, and is God, and we learned before that there is no other God, then Christ cannot possibly be inferior to the Father in respect to divinity or nature. Nor even in causality, since Christ here says He is the “Alpha and the Omega,” or, in other words, the First and the Last.

The meaning here then is either in His human nature, which was created and prepared by the divine, or else in the order of His office, being sent forth as the mediator between God and man, and in this capacity was subject to the Father. As Christ who “being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men”(Php 2:6-7).

[restornu]

In case you missed the updates on DNA and Abraham it just shows that man does not know everything and the Lord will reveal or restore things in His time, man in his finite mind has limited capacity of the infinite unless lead by the Holy Spirit, knowing thatthe Lord Jesus Christ who is still in control.

The Book of Mormon and New World DNA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYVSxHfDgyI

Most Remarkable Book: Evidences of the Divine Authenticity of the book of Abraham- Bonus Features
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EHKY1NUmcg