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It seems from this post and all the replies that Francis has indeed turned something upside down, much as John XXIII did.

I’m sure his goal is to save souls. He is simply starting from a different point. It seems to me that he truly believes in natural law, and that if you appeal to it in anyone, that person will respond—even if he is an atheist.

If you start arguing, or judging, you are off on the wrong foot.

Basically, he is saying our approach to the nonbeliever should be “Namas te,” “I see the God within you.” If this resonates, the hearer then has two choices: to respond to what he feels or knows is the true God within him, or to use the words as an excuse to do whatever he wants.

Those who make the first choice have been reached in a way that all the arguing in the world cannot accomplish.

We all have God within us. The job is to get through all the weeds and distractions to find it, in ourselves and possibly, with the grace of God, in others.


120 posted on 10/10/2013 10:16:14 AM PDT by firebrand (O)
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To: firebrand
We all have God within us. The job is to get through all the weeds and distractions to find it, in ourselves and possibly, with the grace of God, in others.

No we don't. That's the lie of the enemy. *You shall be as gods....*.

Only those who are believers and have Christ dwelling in their hearts through faith, who are the temple of the Holy Spirit, have God in them.

131 posted on 10/10/2013 12:11:00 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: firebrand
Basically, he is saying our approach to the nonbeliever should be “Namas te,” “I see the God within you.” If this resonates, the hearer then has two choices: to respond to what he feels or knows is the true God within him, or to use the words as an excuse to do whatever he wants.

The bolded is modernism. And yes, I agree that this is what Francis is saying....heresy. From Pascendi Dominici Gregis (Pope Pius X, 1907):

14. Thus far, Venerable Brethren, We have considered the Modernist as a philosopher. Now if We proceed to consider him as a believer, and seek to know how the believer, according to Modernism, is marked off from the philosopher, it must be observed that, although the philosopher recognizes the reality of the divine as the object of faith, still this reality is not to be found by him but in the heart of the believer, as an object of feeling and affirmation, and therefore confined within the sphere of phenomena; but the question as to whether in itself it exists outside that feeling and affirmation is one which the philosopher passes over and neglects. For the Modernist believer, on the contrary, it is an established and certain fact that the reality of the divine does really exist in itself and quite independently of the person who believes in it. If you ask on what foundation this assertion of the believer rests, he answers: In the personal experience of the individual. On this head the Modernists differ from the Rationalists only to fall into the views of the Protestants and pseudo-mystics. The following is their manner of stating the question: In the religious sense one must recognize a kind of intuition of the heart which puts man in immediate contact with the reality of God, and infuses such a persuasion of God's existence and His action both within and without man as far to exceed any scientific conviction. They assert, therefore, the existence of a real experience, and one of a kind that surpasses all rational experience. If this experience is denied by some, like the Rationalists, they say that this arises from the fact that such persons are unwilling to put themselves in the moral state necessary to produce it. It is this experience which makes the person who acquires it to be properly and truly a believer.

133 posted on 10/10/2013 1:36:07 PM PDT by piusv
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To: firebrand
We all have God within us.

I'm assuming you don't really understand 'God within us'...

Those of us who have God in us have no need nor no desire to go chasing after your Eucharist...Plus it would be completely pointless...

And having God in you is a one time deal...We don't have to go any where for another dose...

145 posted on 10/10/2013 2:55:46 PM PDT by Iscool
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