Someone alerted me to a piece at the Italian site Corrispondenza Romana about something that Pope Francis said during a morning “fervorino” at Mass. Posted on 10/03/2013 6:24:01 AM PDT by mlizzy
Someone alerted me to a piece at the Italian site Corrispondenza Romana about something that Pope Francis said during a morning “fervorino” at Mass.
My translation:
Last Saturday 7 September during his morning meditation in the chapel of the Domus Sanctae Marthae, Pope Francis, speaking on the theme “there is no Christian without Jesus” criticized Christian “revelationists” and expressed his strong reservations about the supposed apparitions at Medjugorje.
The official site of the Holy See and the L’Osservatore Romano, however, purged his words of the reference to Medjugorje, confining itself to refer to them in these terms: “There is another group of Christians without Christ: those who look things that are kind of rare, a bit special, who chase after some private revelations,” whereas instead revelation was concluded with the New Testament. The Holy Father warned about the desire of such Christians to go “to the spectacle of revelation, to hear some new things”. But – and this is the exhortation that Pope directed to them – “Pick up the Gospel!”
Here’s the deal.
There isn’t an attribution here, a source, the name of the person who heard the Holy Father speak specifically about Medjugorje.
That said, if you are interested in Medjugorje in a positive way, I suggest that you get used to the idea that there may be an official pronouncement about it that you are not going to like. My spies used to tell me that the former Pope was not a supporter either.
I’m just saying.
Finally, the Holy Father doesn’t seem to be against apparitions in general. The Holy Father is a huge supporter of Aparecida and he will be welcoming the statue of Our Lady of Fatima in St. Peter’s Square on 12 October.
With that news, I will keep the combox closed. I’ll allow pingbacks. If I get interesting comments by email, I may post something… and I may not.
As far as "My Jesus can do anything. How 'bout yours?", yes my Jesus DID EVERYTHING. It's called the FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST. And that by itself is a miracle: that He would die for my sins so I could be reconciled to God purely on His FINISHED WORK. Matchless grace from God to man.
Man, some of my best one-liners and trash talk has just been kicked to the curb. At what point did I just go too far..a person’s got to know their limits:) Just kidding, of course. I’m sorry my mouth got my fingers into trouble. Again. I will try harder. :)
Thanks,
smvoice
Acts 12:5 - 11 Peter’s chains fall off and he is supernaturally led out of prison. Clearly miracles happen in the bible.
Good point. Who was Peter preaching the Kingdom Gospel to? Jews? Gentiles? Both?
It doesn’t matter who Peter was preaching to, the miracle happened. The age of miracles is NOT past and the bible does not anywhere tell us that the age of miracles is past, other than your personal interpretation that is not infallible.
What I'm trying to make you see is that healings, miracles, signs, wonders, dreams, visions, etc. were the operating norm as long as God was dealing with Israel. When she became Lo Ammi (not my people) in Acts 28, those practices stopped. NOW, we walk by FAITH, NOT by SIGHT. And will until He resumes His relationship with Israel (Tribulation). THEN all of those things Peter and the 11 were doing will once again be performed. Why? BECAUSE OF ISRAEL. (The Jews require a sign).
You are just taking a verse out of context, “the Jews require a sign”.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2094324/posts
“Christ did not found a Book. He founded a Teaching Church [Ecumenical]”
“...healings miracles, signs, wonders, dreams ,visions etc. were the operating norm as long as God was dealing with Israel...”
The bible does not say this - this is someone’s distorted interpretation of certain verses to support poor theology.
Also see the FIrst Epistle of St. Paul to Timothy, Chapter 4, verse 14: Neglect not the grace that is in thee, which was given thee by prophesy, with imposition of the hands of the priesthood.
There are no verses to back up the statement that here are no faith hearlers. etc., other than speculative/twisted interpretations of certain verses.
sorry meant faith healers not hearlers.
God never intended for his miracles and healings to be limited to a certain age, and sacred scripture does not support this false claim.
Was God's Word COMPLETE at that point? NO. Is God's WORD COMPLETE NOW? Yes. Until His Word was His complete revelation to man, prophecy was necessary. To CONFIRM the READING, EXHORTATION, and DOCTRINE that was received by the churches. Understand this? We no longer have the NEED for CONFIRMATION. It is ALL WRITTEN DOWN FOR US. It's called the HOLY BIBLE.
Now, what about healing.
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and THINE OFTEN INFIRMITIES." Tim. 5:23.
Common sense tells you that if faith healing was STILL being performed at that time, what was going on with Timothy, that he had OFTEN INFIRMITIES? More than that, what was going on with Paul that he didn't lay his hands on Timothy and HEAL HIM? Either they were both out of God's loop, or it wasn't being practiced by then.
But I'm sure you know this...
That’s a very interesting point about the word “now” in Heb 11:1, I never noticed that before. I find it interesting and worth further consideration and reflection for different reasons than you are using the passage, but regardless, thanks for pointing that out. I suspect it may be helpful for me.
God's Word is so clearly laid out for us, if we just read it, and compare Scripture with Scripture. 2 Timothy 2:15 is the key to unlocking it.
“...Until His Word was His complete revelation to man, prophecy was necessary...”
This is an opinion with no basis in scripture - this interpretation is not found in scripture. These are convoluted misreadings and misinterpretations of scripture based on someone’s need to find a basis for manmade theology.
Common sense tells a person that faith healing is ongoing, and a literal interpretation of the 1 Timothy 4:14 passage confirms it.
Subject closed.
“Subject closed” maybe by you. But not by God. It’s your choice to make, obviously. Choose wisely.
Who determined that this interpretation is correct? Are you God? There is no way to determine this, other than verses pulled out of context.
The idea that there are no longer miracles and faith healings is tenouous indeed, and scripture does not clearly state this, despite the attempts at pulling verses out of context to attempt to support a very weak position.
You just told me the subject is closed. With you. Are you interested in continuing with it, or not? Because I can let it go, it’s between you and God now.
May I ask why please? How are those verses related to Heb 11:1? (Other than also being Bible verses of course)
I was planning a more localized contextual approach at this time.
2 Tim. 2:15 shows us how God will approve us as workmen that need not be ashamed. By rightly dividing His word of truth. Obviously, all God's Word is truth. But He desires that we "rightly divide" that Truth. IOW: Truth from Truth. Not Truth from a lie. SO, how do we begin this? Ephesians, Chapter 2 shows us HIS division of time:
"Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh..."That AT THAT TIME, ye were WITHOUT CHRIST, being ALIENS from the COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, and STRANGERS from the COVENANTS of PROMISE, having NO HOPE, and WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD:" Eph. 2:11,12.
So we know from this that there was a time when we Gentiles were without hope and without God in the world. According to God. If we can establish that time, then we can move forward to "but now".
"BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST." Eph. 2:13. HERE is where we KNOW now that "BUT NOW" began: by the blood of Christ being poured out. Eph. 2:14-22 expounds on this.
So everything that happened BEFORE Christ's death on the cross MUST be "Time Past". And everything SINCE His death and resurrection MUST be "But NOW".
When does the "Ages to Come" begin? "That in the AGES TO COME he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." Eph. 2:7.
We know here that there is going to come a time when we will be a model of God's grace, in order to shew the riches of that grace to those who are living in the kingdom with Christ reigning from His throne in Jerusalem. (Ages to Come that has been prophesied since the world began).
This is just an overview of His time line. And it can be broken down for specific questions and answers. Like prophecy and the mystery. Or "since the foundation of the world" and "from BEFORE the foundation of the world". All of it interesting and profitable to the body of Christ.
I hope that answers your questions. If not, I'll be happy to get into it deeper with you.:) Regards, smvoice
Just for now, just thanks.
I’m so tired today: I didn’t sleep well last night at all. I feel like the while world is foggy. Maybe after a good night’s sleep I’ll be more able to understand the reasoning here better.
Also, if we do continue on this discussion maybe it would be better as it’s own thread as it doesn’t seem to be related to this thread’s topic.
Back to just reading threads for me today. Thanks.
Tim
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