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John 6:53 - Unless you eat My flesh
http://proclaimingthegospel.org/equip/articles/47-john-6-53-unless-you-eat-my-flesh ^ | Unknown | Mike Gendron

Posted on 09/17/2013 8:25:21 PM PDT by jodyel

"Unless You Eat the Flesh of the Son of Man and Drink His Blood You Have No Life In You"

Are these words of Jesus from John 6:53 to be taken literally or figuratively? The Roman Catholic Church teaches the context of John chapter six and the above headlined verse 53 are literal. Thus Jesus is giving absolute and unconditional requirements for eternal life. In fact, this literal interpretation forms the foundation for Rome's doctrine of transubstantiation -- the miraculous changing of bread and wine into the living Christ, His body and blood, soul and divinity. Each Catholic priest is said to have the power to call Jesus down from the right hand of the Father when he elevates the wafer and whispers the words "Hoc corpus meus est." Catholics believe as they consume the lifeless wafer they are actually eating and drinking the living body and blood of Jesus Christ. This is a vital and important step in their salvation and a doctrine they must believe and accept to become a Catholic.

If priests indeed have the exclusive power to change finite bread and wine into the body and blood of the infinite Christ, and if indeed consuming His body and blood is necessary for salvation, then the whole world must become Catholic to escape the wrath of God. On the other hand, if Jesus was speaking in figurative language then this teaching becomes the most blasphemous and deceptive hoax any religion could impose on its people. There is no middle ground. Therefore the question of utmost importance is -- Was the message Jesus conveyed to the Jewish multitude to be understood as literal or figurative? Rome has never presented a good argument for defending its literal interpretation. Yet there are at least seven convincing reasons why this passage must be taken figuratively.

Counterfeit Miracle

There is no Biblical precedent where something supernatural occurred where the outward evidence indicated no miracle had taken place. (The wafer and wine look, taste and feel the same before and after the supposed miracle of transubstantion). When Jesus changed water into wine, all the elements of water changed into the actual elements of wine.

Drinking Blood Forbidden

The Law of Moses strictly forbade Jews from drinking blood (Leviticus 17:10-14) A literal interpretation would have Jesus teaching the Jews to disobey the Mosaic Law. This would have been enough cause to persecute Jesus. (See John 5:16)

Biblical Disharmony

When John 6:53 is interpreted literally it is in disharmony with the rest of the Bible. "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you," gives no hope of eternal life to any Christian who has not consumed the literal body and blood of Christ. It opposes hundreds of Scriptures that declare justification and salvation are by faith alone in Christ.

Produces Dilemma

It appears that the "eating and drinking" in verse 6:54 and the "believing" in verse 6:40 produce the same result - eternal life. If both are literal we have a dilemma. What if a person "believes" but does not "eat or drink"? Or what if a person "eats and drinks" but does not "believe?" This could happen any time a non-believer walked into a Catholic Church and received the Eucharist. Does this person have eternal life because he met one of the requirements but not the other? The only possible way to harmonize these two verses is to accept one verse as figurative and one as literal.

Figurative In Old Testament

The Jews were familiar with "eating and drinking" being used figuratively in the Old Testament to describe the appropriation of divine blessings to one's innermost being. It was God's way of providing spiritual nourishment for the soul. (See Jeremiah 15:16; Isaiah 55:1-3; and Ezekiel 2:8, 3:1)

Jesus Confirmed

Jesus informed His disciples there were times when He spoke figuratively (John 16:25) and often used that type of language to describe Himself. The Gospel of John records seven figurative declarations Jesus made of Himself -- "the bread of life" (6:48), "the light of the world" (8:12), "the door" (10:9), "the good shepherd" (10:11), "the resurrection and the life" (11:25), "the way, the truth and the life" (14:6), and "the true vine" (15:1). He also referred to His body as the temple (2:19).

Words Were Spiritual

Jesus ended this teaching by revealing "the words I have spoken to you are spirit" (6:63). As with each of the seven miracles in John's Gospel, Jesus uses the miracle to convey a spiritual truth. Here Jesus has just multiplied the loaves and fish and uses a human analogy to teach the necessity of spiritual nourishment. This is consistent with His teaching on how we are to worship God. "God is Spirit and His worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). As we worship Christ He is present spiritually, not physically. In fact, Jesus can only be bodily present at one place at one time. His omnipresence refers only to His spirit. It is impossible for Christ to be bodily present in thousands of Catholic Churches around the world.

When Jesus is received spiritually, one time in the heart, there is no need to receive him physically,


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: christians; communion
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To: verga
I have personally corrected elsie on this twice. Protestants will never allow the facts to get in the way of their opinion.

And; you'll probably try to do it again in the future.

The Magisterium will never allow the BIBLE's clear teaching to get in the way of their opinion.


And Mary's still dead.

581 posted on 09/23/2013 2:36:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

That is why I am allowing you to have the last word.


582 posted on 09/23/2013 2:36:57 AM PDT by verga (Lasciante ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate.)
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To: editor-surveyor; verga
There is more to this story than you are telling.

Of COURSE there is; but the pertinent stuff has been told.


Will any of today's RCC members be excommunicated for having any scurrilous, non-Rome approved bible in their possession?

583 posted on 09/23/2013 2:39:50 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: verga

That is why I am allowing you to have the last word.

I accept your permission.

584 posted on 09/23/2013 2:42:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

You are just too much! lol


585 posted on 09/23/2013 5:57:26 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: CynicalBear

EXACTLY what I thought, too, CB. WHY the need for priests when they are ALL priests, according to their beliefs about being spiritual Israel? I don’t think THIS one was ever thought about completely, when those “infallible” men met around the big round table and declared “truth”....


586 posted on 09/23/2013 6:58:10 AM PDT by smvoice (The 2 greatest days of your life: the day you're born. And the day you discover why.)
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To: smvoice
That’s the propaganda line but it’s absolutely untrue.

Luther put a new spin on an old, old, heresy that God clearly doesn't agree with. He then wanted to throw out the book of Jude that warns against that heresy (Jude 1:11) the same way Luther wanted throw out the book of James because James flatly states that we are not saved by faith alone (James 2:24).

Here is where the "priesthood of all believers" first came up (v 3) along with exactly how God The Father Himself reacted to that idea and those who advocated it.

Numbers:16:1 And behold Core the son of Isaar, the son of Caath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiron the sons of Eliab, and Hon the son of Pheleth of the children of Ruben,
Numbers:16:2 Rose up against Moses, and with them two hundred and fifty others of the children of Israel, leading men of the synagogue, and who in the time of assembly were called by name.
Numbers:16:3 And when they had stood up against Moses and Aaron, they said : Let it be enough for you, that all the multitude consisteth of holy ones, and the Lord is among them : Why lift you up yourselves above the people of the Lord ?
Numbers:16:4 When Moses heard this, he fell flat on his face :
Numbers:16:5 And speaking to Core and all the multitude, he said : In the morning
the Lord will make known who belong to him, and the holy he will join to himself : and whom he shall choose, they shall approach to him.
Numbers:16:6 Do this therefore : Take every man of you your censers, thou Core, and all thy company.
Numbers:16:7 And putting fire in them to morrow, put incense upon it before the Lord : and whomsoever he shall choose, the same shall be holy : you take too much upon you, ye sons of Levi.
Numbers:16:8 And he said again to Core : Hear ye sons of Levi.
Numbers:16:9 Is it a small thing unto you, that the God of Israel hath spared you from all the people, and joined you to himself, that you should serve him in the service of the tabernacle, and should stand before the congregation of the people, and should minister to him ?
Numbers:16:10 Did he therefore make thee and all thy brethren the sons of Levi to approach unto him, that you should challenge to yourselves the priesthood also,
Numbers:16:11 And that all thy company should stand against the Lord ? for what is Aaron that you murmur against him ?
Numbers:16:12 Then Moses sent to call Dathan and Abiron the sons of Eliab. But they answered : We will not come.
Numbers:16:13 Is it a small matter to thee, that thou hast brought us out of a land that flowed with milk and honey, to kill us in the desert, except thou rule also like a lord over us ?
Numbers:16:14 Thou hast brought us indeed into a land that floweth with rivers of milk and honey, and hast given us possessions of fields and vineyards ; wilt thou also pull out our eyes ? We will not come.
Numbers:16:15 Moses therefore being very angry, said to the Lord : Respect not their sacrifices : thou knowest that I have not taken of them so much as a young ass at any time, nor have injured any of them.
Numbers:16:16 And he said to Core : Do thou and thy congregation stand apart before the Lord to morrow, and Aaron apart.
Numbers:16:17 Take every one of you censers, and put incense upon them, offering to the Lord two hundred and fifty censers : let Aaron also hold his censer.
Numbers:16:18 When they had done this, Moses and Aaron standing,
Numbers:16:19 And had drawn up all the multitude against them to the door of the tabernacle, the glory of the Lord appeared to them all.
Numbers:16:20 And the Lord speaking to Moses and Aaron, said :
Numbers:16:21 Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may presently destroy them.
Numbers:16:22 They fell flat on their face, and said : O most mighty, the God of the spirits of all flesh, for one man's sin shall thy wrath rage against all ?
Numbers:16:23 And the Lord said to Moses :
Numbers:16:24 Command the whole people to separate themselves from the tents of Core and Dathan and Abiron.
Numbers:16:25 And Moses arose, and went to Dathan and Abiron : and the ancients of Israel following him,
Numbers:16:26 He said to the multitude : Depart from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of theirs, lest you be involved in their sins.
Numbers:16:27 And when they were departed from their tents round about, Dathan and Abiron coming out stood in the entry of their pavilions with their wives and children, and all the people.
Numbers:16:28 And Moses said : By this you shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all things that you see, and that I have not forged them of my own head :
Numbers:16:29 If these men die the common death of men, and if they be visited with a plague, wherewith others also are wont to be visited, the Lord did not send me.
Numbers:16:30 But if the Lord do a new thing, and the earth opening her mouth swallow them down, and all things that belong to them, and they go down alive into hell, you shall know that they have blasphemed the Lord.
Numbers:16:31 And immediately as he had made an end of speaking, the earth broke asunder under their feet :
Numbers:16:32 And opening her mouth, devoured them with their tents and all their substance.
Numbers:16:33 And they went down alive into hell, the ground closing upon them, and they perished from among the people.
Numbers:16:34 But all Israel, that was standing round about, fled at the cry of them that were perishing : saying : Lest perhaps the earth swallow us up also.
Numbers:16:35 And a fire coming out from the Lord, destroyed the two hundred and fifty men that offered the incense.
Numbers:16:36 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying :
Numbers:16:37 Command Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest to take up the censers that lie in the burning, and to scatter the fire of one side and the other : because they are sanctified.
Numbers:16:38 In the deaths of the sinners : and let him beat them into plates, and fasten them to the altar, because incense hath been offered in them to the Lord, and they are sanctified, that the children of Israel may see them for a sign and a memorial.

When God enters into a Covenent He raises up leaders and also anoints shepherds for His sheep. He doesn't have the sheep elect whichever sheep they like best as their shepherd, nor does He approve of sheep being self-appointed shepherd to however many fellow sheep with itching ears decide to follow the self-appointed head sheep of the Church of Itchy Eared Sheep.

Jesus Christ put the authority for selecting shepherds in the hands of the Apostles who have passed that authority down to us in an unbroken chain to this day. We are no more our own shepherds than ancient Israel that Scripture called a nation of priests was a nation without a priesthood.

And don't even try to pretend the New Testament changed that approach since Christ selecting Apostles who chose and appointed Bishops who in turn could ordain priests is an example of the fact that God is indeed the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, not an example of anyone deviating from the will of Jesus Christ.

And contrary to what heretic propagandists dreamed up to rationalize their heresy may say, it was Peter, not Constantine, who established the hierarchy and roles within that hierarchy that the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself founded continues to this day.

587 posted on 09/23/2013 7:05:26 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin; CynicalBear

...so the Catholic church is NOT spiritual Israel?...


588 posted on 09/23/2013 7:11:29 AM PDT by smvoice (The 2 greatest days of your life: the day you're born. And the day you discover why.)
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To: smvoice; Rashputin; CynicalBear
An important passage which I believe is too often overlooked in discussing priests is that God instituted a ceremonial mortal priesthood in anger over Moses' disbelief (emphasis mine):

And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I [am] not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I [am] slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.

And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.

And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand [of him whom] thou wilt send.

And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, [Is] not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, [even] he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God. – Exodus 4:10-16

God's Name is I AM.

589 posted on 09/23/2013 7:36:14 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Thanks so much for that Scripture, Alamo-Girl. You’re right, it is overlooked when discussing the priest issue. Thanks again! regards, smvoice


590 posted on 09/23/2013 7:38:42 AM PDT by smvoice (The 2 greatest days of your life: the day you're born. And the day you discover why.)
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To: smvoice

You’re quite welcome, dear smvoice, thank you for your insights and encouragements!


591 posted on 09/23/2013 7:43:14 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Elsie

“All good verses; but the FACT remains that Jerusalem; itself; is NOT beside many waters.”

No. Israel’s people were, and this is whom the prophecy is directed against: the priesthood (harlot) and the people.


593 posted on 09/23/2013 9:22:38 AM PDT by Stingray (Stand for the truth or you'll fall for anything.)
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To: Elsie

“Last time I looked...

We STILL have seas.

We STILL have the OLD Jerusalem, complete with fighting over the Temple Mount.”

A convincing record of the passing away of heaven and earth is found in the writings of Josephus, a Jewish historian who was actually present during the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, and afterward wrote of what had happened. His writing is quite an eye opener on the subject of heaven and earth as viewed by the Jews.

“However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world: for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a Heaven peculiar to God...” Josephus, Antiquities, Book 3, Chapter 6, Paragraph 4, Section 123).

“When Moses distinguished the tabernacle into three parts, and allowed two of them to the priests as a place accessible to the common, he denoted the land and the sea, these being of general access to all; but he set apart the third division for God, because heaven is inaccessible to men” Josephus, Antiquities, Book 3, Chapter 7, Paragraph 7, Section 181).

Josephus is portraying the first century Jewish understanding of “heaven and earth” in these writings. He is describing how the Jews looked upon their place of worship in the Mosaic Tabernacle and later in the Temple as “a heaven and earth.” They believed that their Temple was at the very center of the earth, and saw it as the place where heaven and earth came together, and where God met man. In the quotes just made from Josephus, he calls the outer part of the tabernacle “an imitation of the system of the world” and the “sea and land, on which men live.” By contrast, the inner Holy of Holies he terms “heaven peculiar to God.” There was a fabric veil that separated these two compartments in the Tabernacle and the Temple, which he describes as being “very ornamental, and embroidered with all sorts of flowers which the earth produces.” This last quote is found in Antiquities, Book 3, Chapter 6, Paragraph 4, Section 126.

C.H. Spurgeon (1834–1892) in a message he once delivered (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Volume 37, Page 354), made the following statement about “heaven and earth” as used in the Scriptures: “Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, of any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and now we live under the new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it.”

Jessie E. Mills, Jr., Ph.D., writes in his work entitled, Revelation Survey and Research, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words shall not pass away,” Matt. 24:35. Thus the heaven and earth here represented the fall of Jewish power, so also in Matt. 24:29, where the symbols of the sun, moon, and stars is used to denote the rulers of Israel. Note this fall would occur at the advent of Christ.”

http://www.christeternalchristianchurch.com/learningactivity36.htm

21st century American literalism neither understands nor explains 1st century Jewish symbolism.


594 posted on 09/23/2013 9:31:54 AM PDT by Stingray (Stand for the truth or you'll fall for anything.)
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To: Stingray
"21st century American literalism neither understands nor explains 1st century Jewish symbolism."

American literalism started the 20th century trying to sell the sizzle of dispensationalism and ended the 20th century preaching and teaching the exact opposite of everything it taught at the beginning of the century except for the Best Selling Christ Surrenders to Satan and Evacuates Party People doctrine it had refined dispensationalism into.

Dispensationalism and Evacuation doctrine is part of the strong delusion that's led this country to it's current paganism. It's really funny how folks who side with the queer promoting, infanticide promoting, mega-church crowd like to repeat the lie that the Catholic Church embraced paganism while at the same time sacrificing their own children to Moloch in return for the promise of prosperity exactly like Carthaginians routinely did.

595 posted on 09/23/2013 10:25:43 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Stingray

Hyper calvinist cultist.


596 posted on 09/23/2013 11:10:43 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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Comment #598 Removed by Moderator

To: Stingray
>>Well, that’s what happens when you divorce one woman and marry another.<<

So you believe that when God says forever it doesn’t really mean forever?

>> Again, these references can be understood by cracking open the Old Testament.<<

We will get to that later I’m sure.

>> some of the directives in the book would make no sense after the destruction of Jerusalem (”go measure the Temple.”)

So the Jews are not now ready to rebuild the temple?

So I suppose you also believe that Nero was the anti-Christ correct? And he made the seven year covenant with Israel? BTW are you full Preterist of partial?

599 posted on 09/23/2013 12:14:02 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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