Huh????
Posted on 09/17/2013 8:25:21 PM PDT by jodyel
"Unless You Eat the Flesh of the Son of Man and Drink His Blood You Have No Life In You"
Are these words of Jesus from John 6:53 to be taken literally or figuratively? The Roman Catholic Church teaches the context of John chapter six and the above headlined verse 53 are literal. Thus Jesus is giving absolute and unconditional requirements for eternal life. In fact, this literal interpretation forms the foundation for Rome's doctrine of transubstantiation -- the miraculous changing of bread and wine into the living Christ, His body and blood, soul and divinity. Each Catholic priest is said to have the power to call Jesus down from the right hand of the Father when he elevates the wafer and whispers the words "Hoc corpus meus est." Catholics believe as they consume the lifeless wafer they are actually eating and drinking the living body and blood of Jesus Christ. This is a vital and important step in their salvation and a doctrine they must believe and accept to become a Catholic.
If priests indeed have the exclusive power to change finite bread and wine into the body and blood of the infinite Christ, and if indeed consuming His body and blood is necessary for salvation, then the whole world must become Catholic to escape the wrath of God. On the other hand, if Jesus was speaking in figurative language then this teaching becomes the most blasphemous and deceptive hoax any religion could impose on its people. There is no middle ground. Therefore the question of utmost importance is -- Was the message Jesus conveyed to the Jewish multitude to be understood as literal or figurative? Rome has never presented a good argument for defending its literal interpretation. Yet there are at least seven convincing reasons why this passage must be taken figuratively.
Counterfeit Miracle
There is no Biblical precedent where something supernatural occurred where the outward evidence indicated no miracle had taken place. (The wafer and wine look, taste and feel the same before and after the supposed miracle of transubstantion). When Jesus changed water into wine, all the elements of water changed into the actual elements of wine.
Drinking Blood Forbidden
The Law of Moses strictly forbade Jews from drinking blood (Leviticus 17:10-14) A literal interpretation would have Jesus teaching the Jews to disobey the Mosaic Law. This would have been enough cause to persecute Jesus. (See John 5:16)
Biblical Disharmony
When John 6:53 is interpreted literally it is in disharmony with the rest of the Bible. "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you," gives no hope of eternal life to any Christian who has not consumed the literal body and blood of Christ. It opposes hundreds of Scriptures that declare justification and salvation are by faith alone in Christ.
Produces Dilemma
It appears that the "eating and drinking" in verse 6:54 and the "believing" in verse 6:40 produce the same result - eternal life. If both are literal we have a dilemma. What if a person "believes" but does not "eat or drink"? Or what if a person "eats and drinks" but does not "believe?" This could happen any time a non-believer walked into a Catholic Church and received the Eucharist. Does this person have eternal life because he met one of the requirements but not the other? The only possible way to harmonize these two verses is to accept one verse as figurative and one as literal.
Figurative In Old Testament
The Jews were familiar with "eating and drinking" being used figuratively in the Old Testament to describe the appropriation of divine blessings to one's innermost being. It was God's way of providing spiritual nourishment for the soul. (See Jeremiah 15:16; Isaiah 55:1-3; and Ezekiel 2:8, 3:1)
Jesus Confirmed
Jesus informed His disciples there were times when He spoke figuratively (John 16:25) and often used that type of language to describe Himself. The Gospel of John records seven figurative declarations Jesus made of Himself -- "the bread of life" (6:48), "the light of the world" (8:12), "the door" (10:9), "the good shepherd" (10:11), "the resurrection and the life" (11:25), "the way, the truth and the life" (14:6), and "the true vine" (15:1). He also referred to His body as the temple (2:19).
Words Were Spiritual
Jesus ended this teaching by revealing "the words I have spoken to you are spirit" (6:63). As with each of the seven miracles in John's Gospel, Jesus uses the miracle to convey a spiritual truth. Here Jesus has just multiplied the loaves and fish and uses a human analogy to teach the necessity of spiritual nourishment. This is consistent with His teaching on how we are to worship God. "God is Spirit and His worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). As we worship Christ He is present spiritually, not physically. In fact, Jesus can only be bodily present at one place at one time. His omnipresence refers only to His spirit. It is impossible for Christ to be bodily present in thousands of Catholic Churches around the world.
When Jesus is received spiritually, one time in the heart, there is no need to receive him physically,
On the other hand as I said before The Catholic Nuns were good to her. They kept her abusive husband whom she divorced after he left her for a 16 year old girl out of the hospital and her under protection. They protected her three months. We still have the cross they gave as a wedding present blessed by their chaplain {priest}. BY THEIR FRUITS!!!!!
“I don’t pretend to know what they are”
I rest my case right here.
If you do ever become born again, terycarl, I am thinking it is gonna be a hard, hard fall to get your attention.
http://f4skurt.blogspot.com/2011/01/typically-dog-who-barks-loudest-is-one_10.html
“The dog who barks the loudest is the one that got hit.”
There are times when God doesn’t want you wasting your kind words of truth with closed sinners in an effort to help them. Might sound crazy, but why force a Message upon those lost individuals who absolutely refuse to hear it? There is a time to add words into the mix, yes accurate words when we do.. and then again, God also wants us to preach loud wordless all the time. He wants you and me to live the life, to be His faithful witness all the time.
Yes, it’s important for each of us to hear God’s Word and be led of the Spirit every day.. in being a witness and also verbally giving a witness out for Christ.
In a context of “judging,” Jesus Christ told His followers, “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces” (Matt. 7:6). Sheep, so to speak, feed on their master’s pasture or perhaps on milk, not on each other or on dirty refuse. Spiritual dogs if you will are attracted to really filthy and gross things on the ground. They like what smells rotten. They like to feed on what shouldn’t be fed upon. They like to bite people or other dogs. As it is with spiritual swine who will walk on what’s priceless, holy things are of no value to them.
Rest of article at link.
RC's have the same problem with understanding the clear words of Scripture with the passage that states that Joseph did not have sex with Mary until after Jesus was born.MO
Unbelievers coming to saving faith in Jesus thru my witness is my fruit.
God gives us an awesome privilege in allowing us to tell others about Him and lead them to Him.
Very cool and such a neat thing to see. Yep, that is my fruit.
Just a little...just 1/3 perhaps. LOL
I’ve been through it before. General I make my case and then quit. I’m sure this is taken as retreat and surrender, but I don’t care. Thanks for the reply.
Jesus didn't make any exceptions. If you are going to be literal about the literal eating of flesh and drinking of blood, do at least be consistent and interpret the rest of the sentence literally as well.
Jumping between literal and metaphorical to justify doctrine is as poor hermeneutics as there could possibly be.
All it does is convince others that the Catholic church is being duplicitous when it tries to justify it's doctrine using Scripture.
Kennedy? Chavez? Pelosi? Mafia hit men?
Really? They're all going to heaven because they've been born again?
If they were born again, where is the changed life to testify to it?
Well, did it change of not?
It didn't change except that you are not happy with the changes that didn't change the religion at all.
OOOOKKKKAAAYYYY......
There's another one. The Catholic church doesn't change, except when it does.
It is materially sufficient, just not formally sufficient. Do protestants understand the difference?
Huh????
You have enough to play church. You still lack one thing.
Didn’t pay attention at Reading Time, huh?
Read it all and see that it is a symbolic act. Remembrance!
Otherwise it would be deeply sinful blasphemy. (like the catholics do)
>> “there are consequences for refuting Christ’s church” <<
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Yes! That makes it likely that you are a catholic, hating The Way, the true worship of Yeshua.
>> How was Mary a virgin if Jesus’ line to David was through Joseph?<<
.
The confusion arises here because the geneology for Mary shows her father who was also named Joseph. Joseph is a very common name in the near east.
>> “It is materially sufficient, just not formally sufficient.” <<
.
Of course, catholics need satan’s pack of lies: the traditions of lying, twisting, sin-loving men.
For Yeshua’s believers, those of The Way, the scriptures are the totality of Yehova’s provision for the spiritual edification of his sheep.
“Posting of scripture is constantly called anti-catholic hate”
Provide one example.
“As for your question, Yehova’s commandments specifically limit what kinds of “flesh” we can eat, and that of a human is not allowed.”
The Body of Christ is not human flesh. Our Lord’s human body died on the cross. His body after the Resurrection is of divine substance.
What happens at Holy Communion is that He allows us to partake of His divine substance.
“Actually, most catholics know that eating his flesh is purely figurative”
It would be tragic if Satan, working in part through the protestant heresy, had deceived a majority of Catholics in that fashion.
If you want the links, do your own search.
The rest of us have no need for these catholic nonsense games.
We all have mission assignments and they could be in our own family or assembly.
Indeed, some argue that Luther should have stayed in the Catholic Church and forced reform from within. I'm certain that if God wanted it, that is what would have happened.
But just like He peeled Paul off to witness to Gentiles and later split Paul and Barnabas - such branching has caused the words of God to spread faster and farther.
Praise God!!!
“Oh, really! Then Jesus must not have been speaking for God. Oh, wait! Jesus is God!”
That doesn’t follow, by any tortured stretch of imagination, which leaves nothing but empty malice in the rest of your remarks.
“Please use that great Catholic intellect to quote the Scriptures that say that we do not have to be born again, no are filled with his Spirit.”
Case in point.
Signing on to the Protestant understanding of ”born again and Spirit filled” is several steps backward in spiritual and intellectual development.
I didn’t say that “we do not have to be born again, no are filled with his Spirit;” I said that *your*understanding* of these things is insufficiently developed.
And, as one might expect, you completely failed to understand the plain meaning of those words.
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