Posted on 09/14/2013 9:37:39 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
The Vatican’s new secretary of state, Archbishop Pietro Parolin said this week that the issue of priest celibacy is not dogma and is therefore up for discussion.
“It’s not a church dogma and it can be discussed because it is a church tradition,” Parolin told the Venezuelan El Universal, according to a translation by the National Catholic Reporter.
“The work the church did to institute ecclesiastical celibacy must be considered,” said Parolin, who will officially assume the role of secretary of state in October. “We cannot simply say that it is part of the past. It is a great challenge for the pope, because he is the one with the ministry of unity and all of those decisions must be made thinking of the unity of the church and not to divide it.....
(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...
Does it really matter what I find?
Is it really “lies about fatherhood” that sparks the rancor ?
LOL, your mind seems to be wandering, I don’t think you have read my posts.
Where are the statistics to give “fathers” your top billing as “pedophiles” and where are the statistics by jobs that lists Christian ministers as the third most likely profession in America for pedophiles?
Do you have issues with fatherhood that make you want to spread that false claim on the internet?
You had given the impression that you found the proof of those claims in those links, it looks like you didn’t.
What a surprise.
No, I don’t think it matters what I find. Nor do I don’t think any “proofs” will satisfy you. I believe they would only further enflame.
They really don’t have anything to do with the underlying cause.
Rather than playing games and making excuses and personal attacks, why don't you just try it.
Where are the statistics to give “fathers” your top billing as “pedophiles” and where are the statistics by jobs that lists Christian ministers as the third most likely profession in America for pedophiles?
It should be obvious from my posts here - starting with the first one - that I see this debate as useless on the facts. I’ve been here long enough to see them all at least a dozen times.
I know they go around in circles if any where at all.
It’s really about being against the Church. For some that is the definition of their religion that is most important and that they can share with others, no matter how divergent they are otherwise.
So, it doesn’t matter what I find or what I share in terms of facts or statistics, because the real game is to oppose no matter what. It’s that important, it is how some define themselves on the deepest level of religion.
Nothing I offer you here can change this.
The most I could hope for is that you see it as it really is.
What debate? Are you posting to the wrong person?
In post after post to me you keep doing a huge amount of mind reading and seeming to be posting to me about something else entirely than what I have posted on.
Read post 14, it is my first post on this thread, then in post 75 you responded to a post that had been made to me on that question and seemed to indicate that you saw my question answered in the links, but so far that doesn’t seem to be the case at all.
I’ll ask again.
Where are the statistics to give “fathers” your top billing as “pedophiles” and where are the statistics by jobs that lists Christian ministers as the third most likely profession in America for pedophiles?
One would think that Catholics would hold their priests to a higher standard than society in general.
Instezd I see posts that say “Hey! We’re not as bad as everyone else!”
Validly ordained priests in any Catholic or Orthodox churches can and do forgive or retain sins of others.
As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. (John 20:21-23)
Not attempting to indict the catholic church on this thread, but to even remotely defend the catholic church in regards to it's record regarding sexual abuse of children is absurd.
It is precisely because we "hold their priests to a higher standard" that we are better than everyone else.
Shuffling child rapists from one unsuspecting parish to another is not a higher standard.
You have missed my point. I have not said a word in “defense” of the behavior of abusers.
I have objected to your assertions that the Catholic Church had a problem that was somehow worse than other institutions—specifically the assertion that celibacy in some way increases the likelihood of abuse.
The fact is that the Catholic Church had less of a problem than other institutions, and has dealt with the problem more effectively.
Government schools have a worse problem with abuse, and have done NOTHING to ameliorate it.
I think that part of the problem is that while people don't like any sexual stuff going on like teachers dating students, or someone in a position of responsibility having an affair or cheating on their wife, that it is the Priestly concentration of predatory homosexual feeding on boys, that disturbs them.
If you notice, people don't seem much so badly shocked or overly disturbed to find out that an individual Priest might fall in love with an organist or a wife in his congregation, or a parishioner's teen daughter, in fact we never even hear of those common human failings that happen in all walks of life and work.
It seems to be the feeding on boys and the culture of homosexuality within the church, and the seeming cooperation and tag teaming and cover-ups and transfers for so many years within that gay culture, that makes the Priest issues unique.
Even the new Pope has publicly acknowledged that homosexuals are a force within his church and are organized to some degree, that a homosexual culture exists, something that the public has been disturbed and shocked at for decades.
The continuing tales of gay prostitution and gay hookers for some of the leadership in Rome doesn't help either. It was only 2 months ago that this Pope was caught up in a major appointment involving the homosexual problem within the Catholic church. I believe the appointment still stands.
I can’t make it any clearer than my last post.
Pax tecum..
You cite no hard facts—just “seeming.”
The “seeming” is due to the very fact that the media splash incidents involving priests all over the place, relegating Protestant abusers to the back pages, and hardly covering abuse by government school teachers.
The only homosexual priests the Pope “doesn’t have a problem with” are those who have lived a chaste life—i.e., who have actually practice continence.
You seem determined to indict clerical celibacy as a particularly powerful factor in causing sexual abuse. This is preposterous, and is contradicted by the actual statistics.
Wow, I didn’t mean to set you off, read that post again, it was explaining how this homosexual/boys thing makes for a different reaction from the public than the usual sexual failings of people, like I said, there isn’t much interest in Priests having the normal failings that befall so many men, such as having an affair with a female in the congregation or elsewhere, it is the homosexuality within the culture, and the interest in boys and the levels of a homosexual culture that is in the church, that shocks people so much.
Don’t make up things for me, such as making up a quote from me in quote marks about the pope that I didn’t say, or claiming that I commented on celibacy, much less “determinedly” or “to indict”, just like your fake quote, I never mentioned celibacy.
Problem is, NO facts have been given that support the contention that FATHERS deserve top billing as most likely to be pedophiles and molest their own children.
All I see here is evasion and deflection in attempt to get people's attention off a claim that pretty clearly false since there is nothing that has been provided to support it.
It's precisely because that standard is NOT enforced that the Catholic church is more culpable for enabling the molesters that they are NOT better than anyone else, but rather more reprehensible.
Perhaps it was someone else who said it.
If you are hunting for homosexuals, try the Anglicans and Episcopalians.
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