Posted on 09/12/2013 5:58:16 AM PDT by armydoc
As letters to the editor go, it was certainly out of the ordinary, stretching to more than 2,500 words and not one of them veering on the irate or indignant. But the missive received by Eugenio Scalfari, co-founder and former editor of the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, nonetheless made it into print on Wednesday – on the front page and under the impressively brief byline of "Francesco".
Sorry, Guardian articles must be excerpted
(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...
Courtesy ping.
Do you mean like the subsequent lesson for the all men (including atheists) are redeemed ? I think this was the subsequent lesson for that homily.
"Redeemed" means the price of our ransom has been paid by Christ, Who paid in blood. His blood is sufficient for everyone: this is why the Catholic Church has always honored Christ as the "Redeemer of the World".
But if we reject Christ, we will have horror here and hereafter. Christ warned more about hellfire than any other person in the 73 books of the Bible. He was not a "Universalist." Neither is Pope Francis.
Tagline for you.
But again, the Pope does not clearly teach that atheists are not saved. Instead, he currently teaches in his most recent comments that if they follow their consciences they too can be saved. He goes on to say that sin is going against one’s conscience, not Divine Law....and nowhere does he mention the need to be Catholic for a the best shot at getting into Heaven. Typical post-Vatican II rhetoric that misguides a whole lot of souls.
I don’t comprehend the FRoman response to this matter. So far, every Catholic I have challenged on this issue has defended their Universalism, albeit a universalism with conditions. That is, ‘serving goodness and truth,’ being an “Atheistic Good Samaritan,” not “rejecting Jesus Christ,” but having excuse when they do due to “bad examples of Catholics,” or a lack of proper knowledge or possessing of a prejudice “through no fault of their own.”
In my opinion, this is the biggest heresy the Catholics can offer, and all those who hold to it have thoroughly put themselves out of Christianity. Since this appears to be the mainstream view, which the Pope in no way contradicted, I can’t consider Roman Catholicism to have anything to do with Christianity anymore, seeing as how it denies salvation through Christ and encourages men to remain in their sin.
The FRomans seem to want things both ways. That is, that they don’t teach it. But they do teach it, but they defend themselves on the basis of a nuance that is still as blasphemous and wholly Pelagian as it was before. I think that the FRomans would have been okay with this comments if they had not been highlighted in a paper. If tucked away, they enjoy these subversive comments well enough.
First milk, then meat.
This isn't downplaying doctrine. That will come in due time. This is all about beginning a relationship of love.
Notice that Francis' first message to atheists isn't "You're morally retarded and you're going to hell unless you all join Christ's Church." No. Rather, he says, "Welcome. Do you seek goodness? Of course! Then let's start our friendship in Christ with that."
And among his first messages to his fellow Christians, is this: "Please stop running people off with your mouth."
Makes me wonder if he's ever seen our Religion Forum.
Traditional Catholic teaching does NOT teach this. How anyone can defend this man is beyond me. I am so sick and tired of this. I wish the Catholics that do would just stop. This man is preaching heresy. Plain and simple. What Vatican II really teaches is coming to the forefront now. I am beginning to see the sedevacantist’s point of view.
Hold on tight. This is going to be a rough ride folks......
But the real question is: what are you going to do, now that you see? Hang in there and HOPE it changes? Or come out from among the deceivers?
Right now, I remain a Catholic...a traditional Catholic who holds fast to pre-Vatican II teachings. I’m not sure how this is all going to work itself out, but I’ll let God handle that.
You will be in my prayers, piusv. That God will lead you where He wants you to be. AMEN
God Bless,
smvoice
“Right now, I remain a Catholic...a traditional Catholic who holds fast to pre-Vatican II teachings.”
Strange. Isn’t a Catholic bound by the teachings of the “Church,” as well as to the Pope who “holds the keys to heaven?” Such is the reason why I abandoned the RCC a long time ago. When you trust in men, they always fail you. This Pope isn’t even as bad as John Paul the second was, who kissed Korans, receiving Pagan blessings, and said that the Holy Spirit is at work in non-Christian religions (in the sense that their religions are equal with ours).
Take the advice of Cyril, and question all that you have heard, instead of relying on the appeals to authority by men who have long since lost it.
“Have thou ever in your mind this seal, which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning , but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.” (Cyril of Jerusalem, Cat. Lecture 4, Ch. 17)
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”
(2Ti 3:16-17)
GPH, this doesn’t mean I wish to throw the baby out with the bath water, so please don’t try tot convert me to your brand of heresy.
“GPH, this doesn’t mean I wish to throw the baby out with the bath water, so please don’t try tot convert me to your brand of heresy”
Throw the baby out with the bath water, because it’s little mind is inconsistent, its arguments are irrational, and its little hands are dragging you into hell.
Wow, that is a rant if ever I’ve heard one.
Too bad it is completely off base.
“To “believe” in Christ is to believe in His Church.”
Then how do you account for the fact that this born-again, Spirit-filled Christian, who has never set foot in a Catholic church much less believed in its false doctrine, has an active, personal relationship with Jesus and has seen God deliver her from circumstances exactly as He said He would, thru Scripture given her more than two years before the actual event.
Unfortunately for Catholicism, God is working His will thru believers outside of it and showing it up for the false religion it is. Imagine the shock and disdain from the Catholics I knew when God did exactly what He told me He would do and everyone who saw knew it was nothing of organized religion and everything of God.
God is not interested in making converts to Catholicism...He is interested in making converts to belief in His Son. So who do you think the unbelievers saw in all His majesty in this instance? It certainly was not the Catholics who were standing on the sidelines gnashing their teeth. It was the SON they saw and knew had wrought the miracle. God delivered His promise to His saint...me.
And that is how God works...thru His people who believe in Him and the One He sent. God cares nothing for organized religion...God cares everything for those that have a heart for Him only and works miracles on their behalf.
We do not believe in anything other than Jesus and we are saints in His eyes. No doubt under heaven and earth and I am living proof.
“Those who do not believe in the central act of Catholic Worship, the Holy Eucharist and in the belief of trans-substatiation at the Catholic Mass deny the Christ no less than the Mormons or Muhammed and his followers. In a sense these are all non-believers.”
That is probably the most blasphemous statement I have ever heard made by any Catholic and I have heard some doozys.
And, yet, there God is working amongst us “unbelievers” as you call us. You are a fool, sir, of the most serious kind. To stand up in front of all and lie about something as serious as one’s eternal destiny and say it is all down to belief in what the Catholic church says and does is absolutely heinous. And I would be trembling with terror to stand in front of the Lord knowing I had preached a false gospel and led others to eternal doom. I cannot condemn enough what you have said here.
Christ saves, the Catholic religion does not!
One may ridicule or heap scorn upon what is said, but [again] please...not the speakers themselves.
Dear Bluedragon,
I stand by what I said. Some things are so egregious that nothing less than a complete denunciation of the words and speaker are necessary and biblical.
http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/job-song-solomon/can-we-call-someone-fool-or-not
Can we call someone a fool or not?
Matthew 5:22 and Matthew 23:17; Psalm 14:1
Do not call someone a fool
(Matthew 5:22) - “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.”
Calling someone a fool
(Psalm 14:1) - “The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good”
(Matthew 23:17) - “You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold?”
When Jesus said in Matthew 5:22 that you should not call anyone a fool, contextually He was speaking of those who were unrighteously angry. That is why Jesus mentions anger in this verse. There is a righteous anger which is not sinful (Eph. 4:26 - “Be angry and do not sin . . .” ), as well as unrighteous anger that is sinful (James 1:20 - “for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God”). When God is angry with someone, He is always righteous in His anger. Jesus, being God in flesh (John 1:1,14; 20:28; Col. 2:9), can righteously be angry with people and pronounce upon them the foolishness of their deeds—which He did (Matt. 23:17). Also, undoubtedly, Jesus knew Psalm 14:1 which says, “The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God’ . . .” Jesus didn’t forget the well known verse, and God is not wrong for calling someone a fool, especially when it is true.
As a result, we see that the condemnation by Jesus in regards to calling someone a fool is in the context of doing it out of unrighteous anger, which does not fit the later citations of Jesus labeling the hypocritical Pharisees as fools.
Jodyel
Where in those works are the Catholic church approved interpretations of the verses you quoted? Normally when you provide citations, you supply page numbers, at least.
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