Jesus As Mary's First-Born

The Orthodox Presbyterian Church ^

[PAR35]

Per the Douay-Rheims - "And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS." Matt. 1:24-25. (emphasis supplied).

So they clearly had sex after the birth of Jesus.

[narses]

The schismatic and heretical OPC in all of it’s minute glory argues against 2,000 years of history. Too funny.

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

[Theo]

Ah. Latin. I guess you win the argument. An “appeal to authority” fallacy, in both language and logic. Sad.

[Theo]

Indeed, I think your use of Latin as your sole argument against the original post is telling. Appealing to a dead language to defend your dead doctrine. Using a language that’s incomprehensible to most FReepers to defend a doctrine that’s incomprehensible.

Mary and Joseph enjoyed marital sex. Period.

Or are you saying that she practiced the rhythm method? Or that they were never “one”? Sheesh.

[narses]

“Indeed, I think your use of Latin as your sole argument against the original post is telling”

ROTFLMAO!

And the English translation says what?

“Appealing to a dead language to defend your dead doctrine.”

Psst, Latin doesn’t change - neither does the truth. When you get that point, you will be close to understanding what I was saying by posting Scripture.

[DaveyB]

The schismatic and heretical OPC in all of it’s minute glory..

I am guessing, based on your Roman Catholic reply that you really do not know much about the OPC and her history. I could be incorrect, but I am skeptical that you have even heard the name J. Gresham Machen.

[narses]

So you think Scripture (posted in both Latin and English) is sad? An appeal to the authority of Holy Writ is sad? How very odd.

[narses]

A schismatic splinter off an heretical sect, I know of him and the tiny number of followers left in that odd back eddy of heresy.

[metmom]

[metmom]

Name them.

didn't you read the article?

Or, try reading the Bible.

Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?

[DaveyB]

A schismatic splinter off an heretical sect, I know of him and the tiny number of followers left in that odd back eddy of heresy.

Hyperbole aside, what is the nature of the error serious enough to elicit the charge of heresy for which you accuse the OPC.

[metmom]

So, did Jesus have exactly the same DNA as Mary?

If He did, He would have been a SHE.

For your attempt at trying to sound intellectual, you do realize, don't you, that women have an XX and men have XY?

That answers your question, as much as it deserves.

[metmom]

What? You’re going to take the word of the Scriptures over the mythical Gnostic “gospels”?

Heretic!!!!

LOL!!!

[narses]

They deny all of the basic Sacraments of the Church, they deny the Apostolic Succession, the Holy Eucharist and they themselves are a breakaway from an heretical schismatic sect.

[metmom]

In Scripture, the Holy Spirit calls her *mother of Jesus*.

John 2:1 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.

John 2:3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”

Acts 1:14 All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.

Scripture is clear in calling her *mother of Jesus* not *mother of God*.

[narses]

“Scripture is clear in calling her *mother of Jesus* not *mother of God*.”

Is there any doubt that Mary was Mother to Jesus? Or that Jesus is God?

[metmom]

The problem is that if Mary and Joseph had other children, then Roman Catholic doctrine is in error. And NYer and other Roman Catholic FReepers cannot even consider that possibility. They won’t even consider what you’ve said. They’ve got their pope to think for them, and you’re not their pope.

And that gets to the heart of why Catholics will defend to the death ANYTHING the church teaches. If they admit that the church is wrong in even one area, then it opens up the possibility that it could be wrong in other areas.

At that point, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

They CAN'T admit error because they believe that their salvation is dependent on that organization. Bring down the organization and their only hope for salvation (so they would think) vanishes in a puff of smoke.

That's the problem with putting your faith in anything but Jesus. He is the ROCK and cannot be moved.

[metmom]

Indeed, I think your use of Latin as your sole argument against the original post is telling. Appealing to a dead language to defend your dead doctrine. Using a language that’s incomprehensible to most FReepers to defend a doctrine that’s incomprehensible.

Mary and Joseph enjoyed marital sex. Period.

Or are you saying that she practiced the rhythm method? Or that they were never “one”? Sheesh.

For any other couple, getting married under such false pretenses would be grounds for an annulment; if a couple married without the intent of being a husband and wife and giving the other their due as a married couple.

But in this case, no. They're a couple of heroes for doing what anyone else would be condemned for.

Catholics don't know if they're coming or going. They have some pretty weird ideas about marriage and sex, depending......

[Lancey Howard]

For your attempt at trying to sound intellectual, you do realize, don't you, that women have an XX and men have XY?

Hmm.. I thought DNA was a string of double helixes that formed codons which formed genes which make up chromosomes, and that XX and XY was a reference to chromosomes? But hey, you're the microbiologist, so I'll defer to your genius.

[DaveyB]

They deny all of the basic Sacraments of the Church,
They celebrate the baptism and Lord's supper as sacraments.

they deny the Apostolic Succession,
They hold to apostolic succession of elders.

the Holy Eucharist
They celebrate the Lord's supper as a means of grace received by faith

and they themselves are a breakaway from an heretical schismatic sect.
That is nothing more than an intellectually embarrassing ad hominem.

It is obvious that you are passionate about your Roman faith, but your apologetic lacks coherence and is a patently false cavil.