“For the same reason i left out the one before that, and the one before that, etc. etc. Because my point was, nothing more or less, that history is what Rome says it is, which the quote by Manning affirmed.”
And you actually don’t see how Manning’s attestation to the ancientness of the Church undercuts your claim that Manning was saying that the Church’s history is whatever it is as if it were not ancient?
Let’s look at the passage again:
“4. And from this a fourth truth immediately follows,
that the doctrines of the Church in all ages are
primitive. It was the charge of the Reformers that
the Catholic doctrines were not primitive, and their
pretension was to revert to antiquity. But the appeal
to antiquity is both a treason and a heresy. It is a
treason because it rejects the Divine voice of the
Church at this hour, and a heresy because it denies
that voice to be Divine. How can we know what
antiquity was except through the Church ?”
Let’s stop here for a second: “How can we know what
antiquity was except through the Church ?” What we know of the history of Christianity we know from the Catholic Church. There essentially is no other history of the earliest ages of the Church.
“No individual,
no number of individuals can go back through
eighteen hundred years to reach the doctrines of antiquity.”
And that’s true. You can’t go back to the first century to reach the first century doctrines as if they exist or existed outside the Church.
“We may say with the woman of Samaria,
‘Sir, the well is deep, and thou hast nothing to draw
with.’ No individual mind now has contact with
the revelation of Pentecost, except through the
Church.”
Again, that has to be true. What the Holy Spirit led the Apostles to know cannot be known outside of the body of the Christ, the Church.
“Historical evidence and biblical criticism
are human after all, and amount at most to no more
than opinion, probability, human judgment, human
tradition.”
True again. What the Church has, and no Protestant can, is the tradition of the Apostles from Christ.
“It is not enough that the fountain of our faith be
Divine, It is necessary that the channel be divinely
constituted and preserved. But in the second chapter
we have seen that the Church contains the fountain
of faith in itself, and is not only the channel
divinely created and sustained, but the very presence
of the spring-head of the water of life, ever fresh
and ever flowing in all ages of the world. I may say
in strict truth that the Church has no antiquity. It
rests upon its own supernatural and perpetual consciousness.”
That last line cannot be separated from what came before it in the passage I posted or else the context will be lost. Manning makes it clear that the Church is ancient, its teachings are the original, the “primitive” teachings of the Apostles. That the Church is the fount of the faith - and he devoted a whole chapter to this and you make no comment on that of course. And, thus, the Church has a supernatural aspect as a teacher and guide - which is entirely scriptural (Ephesians 3:10).
“Its past is present with it, for both are
one to a mind which is immutable. Primitive and
modern are predicates, not of truth, but of ourselves.
The Church is always primitive and always modern
at one and the same time; and alone can expound
its own mind, as an individual can declare his own
thoughts.”
The Church essentially is timeless - as it must be as the Body of Christ.
‘ For what man knoweth the things of a
man, but the spirit of a man that is in him ? So the
things also that are of Grod no man knoweth, but the
Spirit of Grod.’ l The only Divine evidence to us of what was primitive is the witness and voice of the
Church at this hour.”
Only the Church was there, guided by the Holy Spirit, and sent to teach for all ages until the end of the world.
Without those opening and closing sentences, the edit you posted makes no sense and in no way expresses Manning’s clear meaning.
Does Manning know that it is GOD and the Spirit of GOD, not GROD?
No it does not, but it affirms my contention. Your argument presumes what it attempts to prove, that because the church is ancient then it is the only correct interpretive authority on what is ancient, by which circularity all contrary claims, based on examination of the evidence, are dismissed. This is truth by decree, not by persuading souls by appealing to the judgment of seekers with evidence, seen in Scripture. (Jn.5:36,39; 2Cor. 4:2)
What we know of the history of Christianity we know from the Catholic Church. There essentially is no other history of the earliest ages of the Church.
No other understanding you mean. You are again presuming what needs to be proved, asserting the Catholic Church today is the NT church based upon the premise that according to your interpretation of history, only your interpretation is correct in any conflict.
Even if Rome is the NT church, despite its contrary contrasts , you are also committing the fallacy that holds that the corporate entity that was the instrument of Divine revelation and steward of it, and inheritor of Divine promises of God's presence and preservation, and having historical descent, is necessarily the infallible interpreter of it. But which is not the case.
What the Holy Spirit led the Apostles to know cannot be known outside of the body of the Christ, the Church.
Which is not restricted to Rome.
What the Church has, and no Protestant can, is the tradition of the Apostles from Christ.
According to her interpretation that she alone rightly holds amorphous tradition, objections from Scripture notwithstanding, while even substantially differing with the EO interpretation of Tradition, Scripture and history, both claiming to be the one true church in particular, though largely in "communion" with each other..
Manning makes it clear that the Church is ancient, its teachings are the original, the “primitive” teachings of the Apostles.
Thus no one can argue that her teachings do not sometimes correspond with that which was ancient. For according to her interpretation, only her interpretation can be correct in any conflict.
And, thus, the Church has a supernatural aspect as a teacher and guide
The church in Ephesians 3:10 is referring to the entire household of faith, but church means Rome most supremely, according to her, who has infallibly defined herself as being infallible (when speaking according to her scope and subject-based criteria), thus her declaration of her infallibility is infallible, as is her claim to be the NT church.
The Church essentially is timeless - as it must be as the Body of Christ.
But which includes the entire household of faith., in it various (Rv. 2;3) visible manifestations.
Only the Church was there, guided by the Holy Spirit, and sent to teach for all ages until the end of the world. Without those opening and closing sentences, the edit you posted makes no sense and in no way expresses Manning’s clear meaning. .p> That is absurd and superficial! My portion makes full sense in expressing Manning’s clear meaning, which remains what i invoked as supporting, that history is whatever Rome says it is, being ancient thus what she says is ancient is so, disallowing and dissent based on contrary claims. And which your edited version only confirms.