MegaChurch or Catholic Church?

taylormarshall.com ^ | August 26, 2013 | Dr. Taylor Marshall

[NYer]

Megachurch. Two young ladies. Both had left the Catholic Church. Both were now attending “megachurches.” We had a good chat together. I wanted to understand their reasons for why they left the Catholic Church for a megachurch.

Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance

I was at the bank and somehow I got into a spiritual conversation with two Hispanic executives that worked there.

Why the Megachurch?

When I asked why they exchanged the Catholic Church for the megachurch, they gave me a number of reasons:

1. “My new church has an iPhone app. I can go on my iPhone and get Bible studies, sermons (video and audio). When I travel I can still watch the sermon, either live or later. I feel apart of the community.”
2. “The preaching is dynamic and speaks to my life. I find practical encouragement.”
3. “I felt judged at the Catholic Church.”
4. “People were not friendly or welcoming at the Catholic Church. The first time I went to my new church, I was welcomed by so many people.”
5. “My new church has classes and courses that are interesting and helpful.”
6. “The music is better.”
7. “In the Catholic Church, they use a lot of words that I did not understand.”
8. “People pray for each other and know each other (in the megachurch).”

Although these two ladies didn’t articulate it explicitly to me, I could tell that they were very proud of their new churches. I could also discern in them a surprise that I am so “spiritual” and yet I am very excited about being Catholic. They assumed the “with it” people were leaving Catholicism for the bigger and better and deal.

I asked them what they miss about being Catholic. They replied with two answers:

1. “There are not any crosses in my new church. I know it makes some people feel uncomfortable, but I wish we had crosses.”
2. “What will I do when I die?” They were both unclear about whether they could get anything like Last Rites at the megachurch.

What About the Eucharist?

I asked both about the Eucharist: “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?”

This question didn’t phase them one bit. “Oh we still have communion. They pass out little crackers and cups of juice. I like this better because I thought drinking from one big cup is icky. Spreads germs.”

“But in the Catholic Church,” I replied, “we believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus?”

I may as well have said, “Don’t you know that there are Martians in my back pocket.” She was unaware that the Catholic Church taught this. No idea.

The Problem

This, my brothers and sisters, is the crux of the problem. These girls were raised as Catholics, but did not know about the Eucharist. They did not know that the Eucharist is God. They did not understand the Holy Eucharist is the center of the Catholic tradition.

So when they compare our ho-hum Catholic music and pedestrian sermons to snazzy well produced musical productions and highly polished bulleted sermons from handsome professional speakers…where are they going to go?

If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. This is the task of the New Evangelization if there is going to be one. Can we communicate the mystery of Eucharist. If we fail in that, everyone is leaving the building.

Godspeed,
Taylor

PS: I don’t mean to suggest that having the Holy Eucharist is an excuse for bad music, bad vestments, bad architecture, and bad sermons. The Eucharist is like a precious diamond. It deserves a platinum setting…not a plastic setting. We can’t say, “Well, we have the Eucharist – so you’re forced to stay and have a miserable experience every Sunday.” We can’t keep the sacraments hostage to mediocracy.

PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!

Pope Francis at Rio de Janeiro
3 million people

[SoothingDave]

Ok. Do you think that the Bible teaches that Jesus was God and that Mary is His mother?

[SoothingDave]

No, i deny your interpretation. They are not one and the same.

[Iscool]

Either way, you can see from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God consists of the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.

I do not need angels to carry my prayers to God...I have a supernatural super-fax which gets my prayers there as quick as I can think them up...

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

I find it interesting that your religion completely denies a thousand year reign of Jesus Christ where we Christians will reign with Jesus which is clearly layed out in Rev. 20 while latching onto some obscure verses that have to do with saints and prayers in the same book and build your religion upon it...

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[Iscool]

So dead faith is OK with Jesus? That’s good to know.

How about those Catholic monks who do nothing but sleep and pray??? Is that dead faith???

[CynicalBear]

>> Do you think that the Bible teaches that Jesus was God and that Mary is His mother?<<

You don’t want to use scripture ey? Ok, I’ll play your game. Is David the father of God?

“He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:” (Luke 1:32)

“And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?” (Matt 12:23)

“And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.” (Matt 15:22)

“And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou son of David.” (Matt 20:30)

“And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.” (Matt 21:9)

Again, is David the father of god?

[CynicalBear]

SoothingDave said: >> I would never claim that my sanctification was done.<<

Holy Spirit said:

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I will pray for you sir. You have clearly denied the words of the Holy Spirit and/or you are not a believer on the Lord Jesus Christ as savior.

[Seven_0]

There is no trap here. I just think it is interesting that Scripture is preaching to Abraham. Do we have any other records that are older than the Old Testament?

[metmom]

LOL!!

Touche`

[CynicalBear]

Christ Himself drew a line between the human nature and the eternal nature of Christ.

“While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.” (Matt 22:42-46) [See also: Mark 12: 35-37, and Luke 20:41-44]

He has clearly established the fact that David is NOT the father of God, because he is NOT the father of the second person of the blessed trinity. He has clearly shown this distinction of natures to be a mystery.

Another indication of the distinct natures of Jesus.

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

God didn’t give the “Spirit” to the second person of the Trinity He would have already been “one” with it.

The second person of the Trinity has neither beginning nor end. Jesus Christ the man died on that cross. The second person of the Trinity did not die nor can it die or be put to death.

[metmom]

Acts 26:13-18 At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, that shone around me and those who journeyed with me. And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ And I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’

And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you, delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles—to whom I am sending you to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Hebrews 10:10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

1 Peter 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

[CynicalBear]

And still they deny! If they truly desire to be followers of Christ I pray they beg the Holy Spirit for guidance.

[boatbums]

Since you are not Orthodox I am not sure why you have chimed in. You gave specifics. I gave a general outline. What I said is true.

You said something that was untrue - that you concluded EOs only differed with the RCC in two areas (authority of the Pope and the vague, "the Western compulsion to define everything."). In fact, the differences are in many areas - areas that the Roman Catholic Church has declared mandatory dogmas for ALL Christians to hold. One doesn't have to be a member of a particular religious group to be familiar with their tenets and contribute to the discussions on this forum. Perhaps by my doing so, you gained some needed knowledge. No thanks necessary!

[boatbums]

Me, too!

[boatbums]

AMEN!

[boatbums]

What do you think “Romance languages” means if not translations? If the Church was forbidding them, they must have been unauthorized. You need to read things in an historical perspective.

Perhaps it is YOU who needs an historical perspective that goes beyond the sanitized, biased Roman Catholic revised version of history?

By 500 AD the Bible had been translated into over 500 languages. Just one century later, by 600 AD, it has been restricted to only one language: the Latin Vulgate! The only organized and recognized church at that time in history was the Catholic Church of Rome, and they refused to allow the scripture to be available in any language other than Latin. Those in possession of non-Latin scriptures would be executed! This was because only the priests were educated to understand Latin, and this gave the church ultimate power… a power to rule without question… a power to deceive… a power to extort money from the masses. Nobody could question their “Biblical” teachings, because few people other than priests could read Latin. The church capitalized on this forced-ignorance through the 1,000 year period from 400 AD to 1,400 AD knows as the “Dark and Middle Ages”. Pre-Refomation History of the Bible

[HiTech RedNeck]

(Hey, I know I don’t see eye to eye with the official Catholic system but I don’t mean to imply that any Catholic who has personally believed in Christ for salvation of their eternal life is any less a Christian than myself. I give full glory and credit to Jesus Christ and not preachers or priests for doing that work in mankind, as a good Crazy Evangelical ought to be giving!)

Well, I pray and wish God’s blessings on this one. Blessings are what displace curses, abortion and the PP adopted attitude towards it being a horrible curse. (If they wanted it rare they wouldn’t be rolling out red carpets for it and they’d also be going along with Christian ideals of glorifying God in human bodies.) And while others if asked might also invoke blessings, we KNOW that when we pray and glorify God, we invoke blessings. And that’s going to be the dance of heaven anyhow — nobody else there will dance it for us while we sit there inert, we will ourselves dance it — so why not start practicing it now?

[SoothingDave]

You say “vague” i say “succinct”.

I don’t need you to teach me anything (and you haven’t) and the Orthodox don’t need you to speak for them.

[SoothingDave]

Is Jesus God and is Mary His mother?

Simple questions. I would think you could answer them.

[SoothingDave]

The offering is once. The sanctification plays out over human time.

The difference is that i don’t accuse you of blaspheming the Holy Spirit because you have a different interpretation.

Meditate on that.

[HiTech RedNeck]

It was a dark, dark time when the church had gotten so entangled in the state that it could even do something like that. I believe that was the seat of such arrogance. And yes, of all people, Protestants have gotten into such entanglements too when they should have completely known better!

The church had so given short credit to the gospel of YES, a gospel which when still alive sold itself quite vigorously, that it was neck deep in the “gospel” of NO. A state church would do an awfully poor job with the gospel of YES because it would have taken on unbelievers by very definition. The city of God, to use a metaphor favored by Aquinas, has sheep in it. No goats.