I do a mea culpa on this; while channeling Hillary:
Posted on 08/24/2013 11:24:16 PM PDT by reaganaut
A Christian professor and evangelist said that after 30 years in the Mormon Church, she came to a unique realization – the Bible is more accurate than the Book of Mormon, and God is bigger than the transcendent man worshipped by the "Latter day Saints" (LDS).
"I began to feel like somebody was pulling back the curtain in Oz," Lynn K. Wilder, associate professor of special education at Florida Gulf Coast University, former tenured professor at Brigham Young University, and author of Unveiling Grace: The Story of How We Found Our Way Out of The Mormon Church, told The Christian Post in a Monday interview. She contrasted the Mormon and Christian churches, unmasking LDS secrets – polygamy, racism, and a fundamental distrust in the Word and Power of God.
When Wilder and her husband, Mike, searched for a church home following their marriage, they found most churches "boring and out of touch," she said. She had also been reading the Old Testament thoroughly and became convinced that "these must be latter days," since Israel had returned to its homeland.
Mormon missionaries knocked on her door, spoke about the "latter days," and welcomed the Wilders into a close-knit community. "They take you in, they love on you, they began to supplant my biological family," Wilder explained. Joining the church gave her and her husband a higher status in the college and church communities. In 1999, Brigham Young University offered her a job.
Upon moving to Utah, however, the professor recounted new discoveries – the Mormon scriptures still preach racism and polygamy, despite LDS public denials. "The Bible doesn't teach that the mark of Cain was dark skin," she explained, "but the Book of Mormon does." She noted that the mark of Cain is in other Mormon scriptures, too, besides the Book of Mormon.
It wasn't until her son Micah left the Mormon Church, however, that Wilder considered questioning their doctrines, she said. Refusing to present him to the high council for excommunication, she and her husband sent him away, and he encouraged them to read the New Testament.
"Mormons believe that the Bible is often mistranslated and corrupt," the former BYU professor testified. Their scripture tells of a "great apostasy" following the death of the apostles, such that there was no true church until Joseph Smith founded Mormonism in 1830.
But when Wilder read the New Testament, she was mesmerized. "I became consumed with this God of love, the God of grace," she said, noting that Mormons believe in works-based salvation. According to the LDS church, your deeds get you into heaven, she explained, while "in Christianity, Christ did all the work on the cross."
The LDS church also teaches that Jesus failed to hold His church together, the professor noted. She quoted Joseph Smith's History of the Church, where the Mormon founder wrote, "I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man who has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam….Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it."
Wilder said she believed that God is strong enough to keep His church together and to preserve the message in the Bible. In Mormonism, however, God is not omniscient or omnipotent, "he is a man, basically, who is continuing to progress and I can be on that same journey," she said.
The former BYU professor explained that, according to LDS doctrine, the best Mormons will proceed to become gods like the creator. Women can only achieve this if they are married, and only apostates – those who reject the LDS church – will go to hell with Satan and his minions. Even Hitler and murderers, by contrast, will reach the bottom level of heaven, she said.
The ex-Mormon recalled that, when she turned to Jesus, she began to see signs of the personal Biblical God (the Mormon God is not personal, she alleged) touching many aspects of her life. Her book tells the story of a picture of Christ that survived a burning building, and of a Billy Graham sermon lodged deep in her memory.
Wilder testified that a buyer showed up at her house the day after she and her husband had decided to withdraw from the Mormon Church, and a college dean offered her a job for which she had never applied. "Christianity is wonderful because of God," she said. "He's created for all of us a new family, a new life, and the most amazing trust in Him because of what we watched Him do."
In addition to teaching, she and her husband run a ministry dedicated to "helping Mormons understand a bigger God, trust the Bible, and give a different Jesus a chance." She said they aim to reach the thousands of Mormons who left the LDS church – often to revert into Atheism or Agnosticism.
Ok, let’s go with the 2 potential wives but make it a bit more realistic.
Not only is dad’s pick going to be his wife but she will also run the company he works for. The only company he can work for BTW.
One got her college degree in ecology. The other got her’s in Business.
I’ll tell dear ol dad to pick the business woman.
I'd at LEAST try to find a ride that was going in THE RIGHT DIRECTION!
The FOOLS that voted for Romney just didn't want to get to NY very fast; that's all!
The FOOLS that voted for Romney just didn’t want to get to NY very fast; that’s all!
I do a mea culpa on this; while channeling Hillary:
That is a very common response. Like the Who song “Won’t get fooled again”.
What ever the two sentences mean, i believe if some one was really trying to save( as an example) my soul, they would not be ridiculing me, :not that you are doing that: but would be preaching the Gospel of Jesus because that is the only gospel there is.
But that is not what happens, So much of the ridicule that the Mormons get on these threads have nothing to do with the gospel.
Many people claim the Mormons are not Christians, and they are just doing their duty in trying to convert them to Christianity, my question is are they christian enough to do it?
A bishop of the Mormon Church came to my brothers house (my brothers wife was Mormon) after visiting a few minutes the bishop smiled and said i came down to make a better man of you:
My brother looked him square in the eye and said ok, go ahead if you think you are man enough for the job, he was,nt.
But it works both ways, i don,t want some pompous know it all telling me how to worship and i don,t want them telling me how to vote.
If some one just wants to discuss these matters that is different.
Also if some one gives me a scriptures from the Bible, i want to see the scripture not just their made up meaning of it.
After having said that i will have to admit i kind of enjoy a good old ruckus, it reminds me of the good ole days, but it does worry me because i am afraid i am already in enough trouble with God.
It don,t make any difference but since you make it a point to ridicule some one else for who they voted for i was just curious if you and a few others had the guts to say.
But i think i got my answer, well maybe he is not as bad as some say he is.
Witnessing to the LDS is different than witnessing to any one else. You have to break their Mormon wall and that usually involves making them mad enough to try to prove you and your sources wrong. That is how I got out, that is how most of us get out. After they see Mormonism is wrong, THEN you love them to the Lord.
Using the Bible is great, and we do that a lot, but they do not believe the Bible to be reliable and claim it is corrupt and not trustworthy, so if you give them a verse and it doesn’t agree with Mormon doctrine, they will just dismiss it as being corrupt or ‘not translated correctly’ (to quote their articles of faith).
Also, Mormons use Christian vocabulary but a very different dictionary. You can give them the gospel and they will say they agree (like Salvation by grace) but they mean something VERY VERY different.
This method does actually work. I know of at least 4 LDS who have left Mormonism because of threads like this here on FR.
Witnessing to the LDS is different than witnessing to any one else. You have to break their Mormon wall and that usually involves making them mad enough to try to prove you and your sources wrong.
Also i guess by nature or maybe something even stronger i seem to have to take up for people getting picked on, if it were the Catholic people i would be the same way.
But on some issues i am as bad as any one else so i am not complaining.
And although some people will say i am wrong i believe the Gospel has already been preached to all of the world so i have no interest in picking out a group of people to try and convert.
Besides that i am not a fit man for the job.
Thanks for the comment.
When Mormons put the emphasis on converting dead people, they stress Mormon spirit missionaries on the other side of death & Mormon proxies on this side of death as the ones doing it...referencing such Mormons as "saviors on Mt. Zion"...
When Mormons put the emphasis on converting alive people, the emphasis is on missionaries + grassroots Mormons. Still, the emphasis is the same: Mormons.
When those in Christ look @ the conversion process, guess what? The emphasis is on the Holy Spirit (not us):
"NO ONE can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor. 12:3)
People in influential leadership positions promoting abortion is supposedly "no call to get so carried away"???
May I remind you that aborted babies -- and their spare parts -- are being literally "carried away" every day in multiple countries of this world?
If you don’t care, fine. But stay out of the way of those of us who DO care about people going to Hell and don’t tell us how to do our job.
I hate backseat quarterbacks who have never played.
Why don't you be consistent then...there's plenty of mission agencies & denominational mission HQ listed on various Web sites.
You can just start e-mailing them all with a message similar to the following:
"i have no interest in [you missionaries] picking out a group of people to try and convert. So, hey, give it up. Y'all come on home now." Signed: Ravenwolf
[Tell you what: Be consistent and then start with those 80,000 Lds missionaries out there 'round the world...each of them trying to convert the demographic/ethnic groups around them]
“NO ONE can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.” (1 Cor. 12:3)
When Mormons put the emphasis on converting alive people, the emphasis is on missionaries + grassroots Mormons. Still, the emphasis is the same: Mormons.
If you don’t care, fine. But stay out of the way of those of us who DO care about people going to Hell and don’t tell us how to do our job.
I hate backseat quarterbacks who have never played.
And if you don,t like my comments about the stuff you post on the site then just ignore it or get used to it or mot put the phoney stuff up there ok.
Worried about some one going to hell, yeah right.
People in influential leadership positions promoting abortion is supposedly “no call to get so carried away”???
May I remind you that aborted babies — and their spare parts — are being literally “carried away” every day in multiple countries of this world?
But i don,t know much about Romney except what you have said and since you seem to hate Mormons so much how can i do anything except take it with a grain of salt?.
[Tell you what: Be consistent and then start with those 80,000 Lds missionaries out there ‘round the world...each of them trying to convert the demographic/ethnic groups around them]
You are using this site to ridicule people of another religion, or in this case reaganaut did and convert anyone you can away from that religion, you have a place for comments so i commented, left at that nothing more would have been said but you and reaganaut did not like my comment which had nothing to do with either one of you, so here we are.
If you want to convert the whole world into what ever it is you believe in that is fine with me but you post it on the site and invite comments then i might just comment.
WHERE?
I'll apologize when I see it.
Why the qualifier?
Matthew 15:16
"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
Matthew 231. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2. "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
4. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5. "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
6. they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
7. they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
8. "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
9. And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10. Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you will be your servant.
12. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
14. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
16. "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
17. You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18. You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
19. You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
20. Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21. And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
22. And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
23. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
28. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
30. And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
31. So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
32. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
33. "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
34. Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
35. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
37. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
38. Look, your house is left to you desolate.
39. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
Mark 7:26-27
26. The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
27. "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
I'll bet you haven't 'heard' the following:
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.Who has made this so?Have I?Have this people?Have the world?No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.Can you pass without his inspection?No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
Have you SEEN what the OWNER of this site says about that 'religion' you are supporting?
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