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To: MacNaughton

I respect Hanson somewhat but his wording is misleading (if that is his wording). The Greeks did NOT think of homosexuality in terms of today-—so you are nonsensical (or Hanson is) when you talk about Greeks training their men to be “homosexual”.

That concept of today was created by German pederasts in the 1800’s who wanted to normalize homosexuality and man/boy sex in the late 1800’s in a Christian Europe. They founded the German Boy Scouts and lots of institutions to promote homosexuality, particularly in Germany. It became the “National Vice” of Germany by 1920. Officials would joke about watching your “back” if doing business with German politicians.

First of all, there was no sexual morality in Greece to speak of—in the Christian sense. They allowed men to woo boys and give them gifts so they would be “partners”. Even their myths-—Zeus and Ganymedes (the boy who was lusted after and raped)—are filled with man/boy combo-—and their art on vases,etc. Boys were the preferred recreation for sex. Men acting the submissive role was discouraged-—always—except maybe in the “Sacred Band of Thebes”. To group these as “bi-sexual” and “homosexual” is misleading-—those concepts didn’t exist in Greece. What did exist was a rejection of women—hatred for women (dehumanization of women)—much like you see in muslim countries.

The Greeks wanted men to marry women-—the concept of homosexual “marriage” didn’t exist because it was stupid——and offspring was essential for the cities-—but the “homosexuality” was so rampant because men were encouraged to select boys (trained in sodomy) because it was emasculating to play the passive/female role. When a boy reached manhood—they were NOT supposed to be treated like women and were encouraged to take boys for recreational sex-—but marry women and produce offspring.

The Greeks had to create all sorts of incentives to encourage men to marry women-—they enjoyed recreation with men and boys-—and were bored with women who were inferior-—just like in the muslim countries. Among all Greeks, the relationship of eromenos (passive/youth) and erastes (adult) was considered to be a normal thing. BTW, first sexual experiences are embedded in limbic area and determines preference/norm. it is why Chastity Bono prefers women-—she was raped by a Lesbian when she was 11. Same with Harry Hay—raped when he was 10 or so by a sailor and he loved it.

There was no such concept of “bi-sexual” “homosexual” in Ancient Greek....it is ridiculous to put 19th/20th century concepts onto the Greeks.


8 posted on 08/18/2013 12:05:46 AM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: savagesusie
"The Dangers of Education"
by Victor Davis Hanson
NRO’s The Corner
Posted on August 15, 2007
http://victorhanson.com/wordpress/?p=3557

I don't think we are disagreeing. I am just passing along VDH's opinion, since the man has a PhD in Classics and has written extensively on Sparta. I, too, have read The Pink Swastika and am familiar with its contents.

9 posted on 08/18/2013 12:26:32 AM PDT by MacNaughton
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To: savagesusie
"According to Greek historian Victor Davis Hanson, there exists a widespread myth..."

Apparently Hanson says the "Spartans trained their soldiers to be homosexuals" thing is a myth. He's debunking this view.

10 posted on 08/18/2013 4:40:30 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("No one on earth has any other way left but -- upward.” - Alexander Solzhenitsyn)
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