Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
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| The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
So were 119 other people.
If the OT Law handed down by God Himself could not save anyone, then no man made replacement works that people think are good works that they think please God and set up in place of the Law are going to save anyone.
John 14: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
If they don’t believe on Jesus they will not be saved. Now show me where the apostles taught that “anyone can be saved if he does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it”. If you can’t.
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9
Got a chapter and verse for that?
Age has not a thing to do with it.
Were no churches (buildings, congregations) before Jesus was born and God still managed to make Himself known. Were no bibles either and still there were those who knew God.
A church, as you believe in it, is just a building, a man-made institution of ritual, sacraments, bowing, and scraping, pomp and ceremony. Any church, even a Baptist or Pentecostal or whatever denomination, is nothing but a building where THE CHURCH, the body of born-again believers, gathers together to worship. But they are still just buildings with some teaching correct doctrine and others not.
So, ONCE AND FOR ALL, church means people (believers in Jesus) not buildings, not denominations, not religious institutions and God needs no buildings or denominations or institutions to reach anyone. Denominations and institutions exist to give people somewhere to worship and practice faith as they feel comfortable whether error permeates that denomination or institution or not. But the Holy Spirit can reach down into the most corrupt buildings and denominations and institutions and pull out His own.
If I am standing on a street corner and another believer joins me, we are THE CHURCH. And as Jesus said, “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Matthew 18:20
No buildings, no denominations, nothing at all required except belief in ME.
This Catholic thing about we got there first and we preserved the bible and we did this and we did that is nothing but puffed up pride. Good on you if you did those things, but if you had not I am sure God would have found another way. Clinging on to what was done outside of what Jesus did is wholly unimportant. God will preserve His word regardless of which man or group was doing the saving of it on His behalf.
What you should be focusing on is bringing souls to Jesus, not to a building or a denomination or an institution or a religion. Why worry about a building or denomination or institution that will be wiped away when Jesus comes again and creates a new heaven and new earth. We will not be Baptists or Catholics or whatever then. We will simply be the Bride of Christ and all this other stuff will be no more.
Think about it because all this posturing and my way is better than your way gets in the way of God’s work and that is TELLING THE UNSAVED ABOUT JESUS.
“Yes and that is what non Catholics have made attempt to do. Take these responses of Jesus in regards to his mother and you can plainly see how Jesus is guiding their attention to the fact that ALL believers and obeyers of God are blessed, and that special emphasis is not to be made on Mary and his other earthly family, he goes so far as to try and put a halt to any possible veneration by stating that whoever does the will of the Father in heaven is just as his mother (and brothers.)
“Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)”
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
Can a religion defend putting such emphasis on Mary as to call her Queen of Heaven, her coming to earth to give visions, crafting statues and artwork showing her full of glory, having beads in her name that you pray over etc even after reading in the Bible the context in which Jesus Christ taught his followers regarding the subject?”
Excellent, kelly!
Would any of us have refused to be the mother of Jesus had we been asked?
I think not.
See my post 1265.
“the Holy Scripture is not a table of ranks and titles.”
Nope, but funny how Catholicism is!
“Time to come back to the Church, Dan.”
Not!!
Read my post 1265 as to the true definition of the word “church.”
“Well I gotta go, I’m off to Mass. I had the privilege of cantoring at yesterday’s Mass celebrating the Feast of the Assumption.”
All the folderol must be comforting to you and I suppose the main reason to be Catholic. I cannot see any other reason.
“During the twentieth century, there have been 386 cases of Marian apparitions.”
And all demonic in origin since Mary is most assuredly dead and cannot appear to anyone.
“I ain’t worshippin’ - I is veneratin’!”
You crack me up, Elsie!!
“But before him there was Mary saying “yes.” to Gabriel’s astonishing proposal.”
I have said yes to the astonishing proposals God has set before me as well (whilst others were sat in disbelief) and have seen mighty works of God when I did.
Yet no one is venerating me as well they should not. Obedience is part and parcel of being a believer in Jesus and none of us should be any worthier than the next obedient believer.
“You have another candidate?”
Yep, Jesus!
“Mary was not protected from all sin, but only from original sin — a wholly different category.
Secondly, she could have lawfully declined at the Annunciation as any woman may. That would not have been a sin.
For purity, we do our part and God does His part, for we are sentient human beings with free will.”
What!!! Ack!!!
“augmentatuon of abilities after death in a state of grace”
What??!!
You people don’t even speak English!
“Yes, honey, we had bad popes and probably will have bad popes some more.”
So then why have any at all? Totally unnecessary.
Catholic logic is anything but simple.
Hello again, Thomas!
The Virgin Birth, then, was no big deal ? We venerate Mary because through her God became man. “And the Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us,” as John tells us. And he did this by being born of a woman, not just by suddenly materializing.
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