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To: Dutchboy88; metmom

**Your remarks are dead-on. You don’t need a sign if you understand grace.**

It’s life, to reach ‘milestones’, ‘watershed moments’, life changing experiences. People will find something, and stop, find something, and stop....over and over. And maybe at each stop, thinking...”I found what I’ve been looking for, I felt something like never before, and this is it. There’s no more greater experience to be found”. ....Until the hunger for something more takes hold. And the search continues.

A common passage used to refute the teaching of tongues for every newborn: 1Co 12:29-30 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?.

First and foremost:
ANY scriptures taken from the epistles are to be read with this understanding: The epistles were written to the churches; the saints, whether they be pastors, elders, or other born again members. Most of the introductions point this out, with the most common being, “to the saints..”. Those people had already been born again. There are a few passages alluding to that experience, but not mentioned regularly since they had already ‘been there’.

The Lord prophesied of the baptism of the Holy Ghost:

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou HEAREST the SOUND thereof, but canst NOT tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: SO is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit.

“He that believeth in me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:38,39

Detailed accounts of the Spirit poured out:
Acts 2:4 The Jews: “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”

Acts 8:17 the Samaritans (part Jew, part Gentile): “Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.” A scene apparently so startling that Simon the sorceror (no small time magician) wanted to buy that power, so that he too could to pass on to others the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:44-46 the Gentiles: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were ASTONISHED.....FOR they HEARD them speak with tongues, and magnify God.”

Acts 19:6: “And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came upon them, and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”

A SIGN/EXPERIENCE.....WHAT IS SCRIPTURAL? CONSIDER PETER’S LIFE IN THE GOSPELS:

(written in autobiographical fashion)

“My life was forever changed; it was my new beginning.....”

..when I saw the Lord turn WATER into WINE!

..when I saw the Lord clease the lepers RIGHT before my EYES!

..when the Lord was walking on the water and called me to him..AND..I..WALKED ON WATER!!

..when I saw the Lord call for a dead man to come forth....and the dead man CAME to LIFE!

..when I SAW the Lord TRANSFIGURED on the mount,..HE GLOWED!

..when I saw the events of the crucifixion, and my denials of the Lord, my heart was SO convicted!

..when I saw the resurrected Christ walk right through a WALL, into a room where I was present!

..when I watched him ASCEND up into heaven!

BUT NO!...HERE.....is Peter’s testimony of the BEGINNING of his new life in Christ; his account to the brethern in Jerusalem after the conversion of the household of Cornelius: “..the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us AT THE BEGINNING.” 11:17 (caps to remind that the beginning of the church is that initial outpouring).

As for myself, I had heart tugging experiences that drew me nearer to the Lord ( the loss of my older brother, to a farm accident, when I was 10. Being drawn deeply to repentance different times. Attending a ‘crusade’, and making a confession of faith, etc.). BUT...the biblical conversion was just not taught at my Calvinist assembly, so I didn’t even known what it really was.

Peter put the death, burial, and resurrection in Christ (for the sinner) in one verse: Acts 2:38.


39 posted on 07/23/2013 8:09:59 PM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Zuriel; Dutchboy88
People in the church who claim that tongues are a sign of the infilling of the Holy Spirit are wrong.

Tongues are not a sign for believers but for unbelievers.

1 Corinthians 14:22 22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.

Nor do I see a huge rush to interpret as Paul said must happen when tongues is exercised.

Nor do I see people seeking to prophesy.

No, everyone is after the experience of speaking in tongues, even to the point of telling people to makes sounds to loosen up and have the gift come on them.

Experience junkies is it.

41 posted on 07/23/2013 8:37:21 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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