And, incidentally, I have heard of an example of tongues in the biblical manner described. A young girl in a gathering stood and spoke up in what most thought was babbling. She was asked to sit down. But, an older man stood with tears running down his face and begged them to allow her to continue. He said she was speaking to him in a Russian dialect known only in the small village he was from. He was visiting some friends in the US and she was telling him the Gospel of Jesus Christ in his native tongue. That afternoon a soul was adopted by God.
But, the glossalalia induced by repetitious chanting while praying, claiming to be driven by the Holy Spirit is one more of those practices which makes one question whether these really are believers or if they are just "experience junkies". Ask yourself if you ever saw Jesus get high this way or encourage others to do so. Their "tongues" is a manufactured error borne of bad theology and poor hermeneutics.
Your remarks are dead-on. You don't need a sign if you understand grace.
“experience junkies”
I need to remember that for future use.
**Paul is simply exagerating when he says, “If I could speak in a tongue of angels...”**
If I may, here’s what may be your personal interpretation of 1Cor. 13:1:
“Though I speak with the tongues of men, OR IF I COULD SPEAK IN THE TONGUES of angels....”.
I prefer the actual wording in the KJV: “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels...”.
No comma after ‘men’.
Here’s Paul showing his approval of unknown tongues from God; given for the individual’s edification. “He that speaketh in an UNKNOWN”(I repeat, UNKNOWN) tongue speaketh NOT”(I repeat, NOT)”unto men, BUT unto GOD: for NO man understandeth him: HOWBEIT in the SPIRIT he SPEAKETH MYSTERIES.” 1Cor. 14:2
**And, incidentally, I have heard of an example of tongues in the biblical manner described.**
Glad you agree with that experience!
**But, the glossalalia induced by repetitious chanting while praying, claiming to be driven by the Holy Spirit is one more of those practices which makes one question whether these really are believers or if they are just “experience junkies”.**
The fakers are ‘tares’ (not that those souls can’t be corrected and converted). And just like ‘tares’, can be any number of weeds in the wheat field. Each species having it’s own identity, but managing to be amongst the wheat. Some are dreadfully obvious, like the ‘ragweed’ (big show, can’t miss them); some, not quite so obvious, like ‘barnyard grass’ and ‘foxtail’ (unpretentious, yet not belonging there). God sez he’ll sort them all out at harvest.
**Your remarks are dead-on. You don’t need a sign if you understand grace.**
It’s life, to reach ‘milestones’, ‘watershed moments’, life changing experiences. People will find something, and stop, find something, and stop....over and over. And maybe at each stop, thinking...”I found what I’ve been looking for, I felt something like never before, and this is it. There’s no more greater experience to be found”. ....Until the hunger for something more takes hold. And the search continues.
A common passage used to refute the teaching of tongues for every newborn: 1Co 12:29-30 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?.
First and foremost:
ANY scriptures taken from the epistles are to be read with this understanding: The epistles were written to the churches; the saints, whether they be pastors, elders, or other born again members. Most of the introductions point this out, with the most common being, “to the saints..”. Those people had already been born again. There are a few passages alluding to that experience, but not mentioned regularly since they had already ‘been there’.
The Lord prophesied of the baptism of the Holy Ghost:
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou HEAREST the SOUND thereof, but canst NOT tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: SO is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit.
“He that believeth in me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:38,39
Detailed accounts of the Spirit poured out:
Acts 2:4 The Jews: “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
Acts 8:17 the Samaritans (part Jew, part Gentile): “Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.” A scene apparently so startling that Simon the sorceror (no small time magician) wanted to buy that power, so that he too could to pass on to others the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:44-46 the Gentiles: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were ASTONISHED.....FOR they HEARD them speak with tongues, and magnify God.”
Acts 19:6: “And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came upon them, and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”
A SIGN/EXPERIENCE.....WHAT IS SCRIPTURAL? CONSIDER PETER’S LIFE IN THE GOSPELS:
(written in autobiographical fashion)
“My life was forever changed; it was my new beginning.....”
..when I saw the Lord turn WATER into WINE!
..when I saw the Lord clease the lepers RIGHT before my EYES!
..when the Lord was walking on the water and called me to him..AND..I..WALKED ON WATER!!
..when I saw the Lord call for a dead man to come forth....and the dead man CAME to LIFE!
..when I SAW the Lord TRANSFIGURED on the mount,..HE GLOWED!
..when I saw the events of the crucifixion, and my denials of the Lord, my heart was SO convicted!
..when I saw the resurrected Christ walk right through a WALL, into a room where I was present!
..when I watched him ASCEND up into heaven!
BUT NO!...HERE.....is Peter’s testimony of the BEGINNING of his new life in Christ; his account to the brethern in Jerusalem after the conversion of the household of Cornelius: “..the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us AT THE BEGINNING.” 11:17 (caps to remind that the beginning of the church is that initial outpouring).
As for myself, I had heart tugging experiences that drew me nearer to the Lord ( the loss of my older brother, to a farm accident, when I was 10. Being drawn deeply to repentance different times. Attending a ‘crusade’, and making a confession of faith, etc.). BUT...the biblical conversion was just not taught at my Calvinist assembly, so I didn’t even known what it really was.
Peter put the death, burial, and resurrection in Christ (for the sinner) in one verse: Acts 2:38.
Not so. There are two different kinds of speaking in tongues. 1 Corinthians 13:1 says we can speak with the tongues of man or of angels.
The tongues of men is speaking of known languages such as what took place on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:4-6). This is the gift to supernaturally speak a known language without having been taught it, and it comes for the purpose of witnessing, as on the Day of Pentecost.
There is also a gift of tongues that is speaking in a heavenly language (what 1 Corinthians 13:1 calls the tongues of angels). This is a language that is not known to the speaker (1 Corinthians 14:2 and 14) but allows the believer to communicate directly with the Lord through the Spirit. There is another kind of speaking in tongues that equals prophecy if it is interpreted (1 Corinthians 14:5).
Not every believer will speak in known languages, as on the Day of Pentecost, or prophesy in the assembly through a message in tongues and an interpretation (1 Corinthians 12:30), but every believer who receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost can speak in the tongues that are for the purpose of edification (1 Corinthians 14:4).
"He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself; but he that prophesies edifies the church. I would that you all spoke with tongues but rather that you prophesied: for greater is he that prophesies than he that speaks with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 6ow, brothers, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?"
It's a bit of self righteousness to say they don't need a sign, it's that GOD GIVES a sign. They don't have to receive what He gives. IT doesn't mean they aren't saved. Speaking in tongues is still a supernatural gift to every believer who will receive it.