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I agree. That’s the problem with trying to discern someone’s salvation based on outward *signs*.

The whole tongues thing is a perfect example. I’ve attended Pentecostal churches and have heard from the pulpit that tongues is a sign for believers that they heave been filled with the Holy Spirit, (baptism with evidence...) and yet Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 14 that tongues is a sign for unbelievers, not believers.

I have had my own experience which I am sure was the filling of thee Holy Spirit (I can FReepmail details if you have the time) and all I can say that if someone needs to have evidence that what they experienced was from God, nothing happened. You cannot be touched by God like that and NOT know it. I certainly don’t need a *sign* to validate it.

The "tongues" matter you mention represents a world view built upon a misunderstanding of Scripture. The tongues Paul speaks of (I Cor.) originated in Acts 2 and was simply a foreign language unknown to the speaker. The "miracle" was that remarks made were in shockingly perfect dialects known only to those from the more than 16 foreign areas mentioned by Luke. That is why a translator is necessary and why it is for unbelievers. Paul is simply exagerating when he says, "If I could speak in a tongue of angels..."

And, incidentally, I have heard of an example of tongues in the biblical manner described. A young girl in a gathering stood and spoke up in what most thought was babbling. She was asked to sit down. But, an older man stood with tears running down his face and begged them to allow her to continue. He said she was speaking to him in a Russian dialect known only in the small village he was from. He was visiting some friends in the US and she was telling him the Gospel of Jesus Christ in his native tongue. That afternoon a soul was adopted by God.

But, the glossalalia induced by repetitious chanting while praying, claiming to be driven by the Holy Spirit is one more of those practices which makes one question whether these really are believers or if they are just "experience junkies". Ask yourself if you ever saw Jesus get high this way or encourage others to do so. Their "tongues" is a manufactured error borne of bad theology and poor hermeneutics.

Your remarks are dead-on. You don't need a sign if you understand grace.