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To: Cronos
1 Pet. 3:20-21: " It (Baptism )saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

Peter is not referring to water baptism. The verse in its entirely says 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience,

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- it's never faith ALONE. Note that.

James also says...James 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.

Same author, same book, same chapter.

Explain the apparent contradiction.

So, do listen to the words of Jesus who said it is faith+ repentance+baptism+the Eucharist+endurance, not any of these in isolation. Of course, these don't "save us" per se, since it is Christ's sacrifice on the Cross that grants us our salvation that we can accept or reject

The problem happens when one takes one section of the word in isolation.

That's right. One ends up speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

If it's grace, it's not works. If it's works, it's not grace.


246 posted on 07/23/2013 10:33:25 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
" is not referring to water baptism"

Incorrect. John 3:5

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Water as a medium with the Spirit is clearly indicated -- water as a medium of life and, in the case of the flood of death. Passing through the waters of the Red Sea, the Israelites came through, with the help of the Spirit, to a new life a new journey

You can read it right at the start of Genesis: the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

252 posted on 07/24/2013 12:11:26 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: metmom
The Spirit who had hovered over the waters of the first creation descended then on the Christ as a prelude of the new creation, and the Father revealed Jesus as his "beloved Son."
Mt 3:16-17
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


253 posted on 07/24/2013 12:12:01 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: metmom; chesley
And why the significance of the spear piercing the side of Christ releasing WATER and blood? Water and Spirit are merged and the significance is palpable:

The blood and water that flowed from the pierced side of the crucified Jesus are types of Baptism and the Eucharist, the sacraments of new life.
Jn 19:34
34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

1 Jn 5:6-8

6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

From then on, it is possible "to be born of water and the Spirit" Jn 3:5

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

in order to enter the Kingdom of God.


254 posted on 07/24/2013 12:13:31 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: metmom; chesley
And read of all of 1 Peter and you see the details emerge: water and spirit provide the means by which which the "imperishable seed" of the Word of God produces its life-giving effect. 1 Pet 1:23
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

255 posted on 07/24/2013 12:15:39 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: metmom; chesley
And don't forget Ephesians 5 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word,

by water through the Word.

Do NOT limit Christ by saying one is saved by faith ALONE. He never said that. do listen to the words of Jesus who said it is faith+ repentance+baptism+the Eucharist+endurance, not any of these in isolation. Of course, these don't "save us" per se, since it is Christ's sacrifice on the Cross that grants us our salvation that we can accept or reject

The problem happens when one takes one section of the word in isolation.

256 posted on 07/24/2013 12:17:26 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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