Ping!
Saint Skittles?
Where does the Bible say that the Bible says everything?
I do enjoy axing the older folks if they believe in ghosts. They better!
We are actually forbidden to talk to the dead; Saul was reprimanded for calling Elijah up to talk to him.
So it can be done, but we are not supposed to do it.
Are there any “living saints”?
Not a very good article.
In the end, here’s what we have...
1. Straw man argument about being “dead”.
2. “Departed saints” is a better term.
3. The Bible does not encourage praying to departed saints.
4. The Bible does not show an example of praying or talking to a departed saint.
5. The Bible doesn’t command praying to departed saints.
6. There is no record that any Apostle or 1st century Christian prayed to a departed saint.
7. There is no evidence that the departed saints hear what you say to them.
8. Pretending a departed saint hears you doesn’t mean they do. It is an argument from silence.
9. If this was a powerful, wonderful Christian practice, why is it never mentioned in the Scriptures that are able to make a person of God mature/complete?
10. Cults love communicating with the dead.
OK, if we accept the premise that the “saints” are alive but not of this world anymore. Why should we pray to another person, whether they be on earth or in heaven?
“where does the Bible say we should pray to dead saints?”
where does the Bible say we should pray to anyone but God?
Extremely specious arguments. How is it logical to conclude that “the spirits of the dead are in paradise, therefore, they are omnipresent and omniscient on Earth, capable of hearing my prayers and aiding me?”
Nowhere in scripture does it state that we are to pray to the saints in heaven. In fact, the prayer of David in his Psalms is to his God, not to anyone else. Christ instructs us to pray “to our Father who art in heaven.” We are commanded to “pray in the name of Jesus Christ” for to receive blessings from the Father. The Holy Spirit is said to “intercede” on our behalf.
This is a truly pathetic and weak article.
I’m not Catholic.
BUT
There is a bit of Scripture which says, and I paraphrase, That which is bound up on Earth, shall be bound up in Heaven.
I take this to mean that, our Earthly concerns, will have SOME weight, in the Final Judgment.
There are SOME people, that WE regard as particularly HOLY, as we, mere mortals, deem them.
These are the people that WE (mortals) deem as Holy and Christ-like, despite their Earthly Coil, i.e., All men are sinners and fall short of the Glory of God...
Anyway, as I have said, I am not Catholic, and have not been raised to give credence to the Saints, though now, I am re-thinking...
When one thinks that they understand the mind of God, they understand nothing...
1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed on with our house which is from heaven.
2 Corinthians 5
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
Corinthians 5.6
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
C.5.8
And I found this one too:
I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body...
Peter 1.14
Just for comparison, verse from the Bhagavad Gita 2.20:
For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.
So why do Jews leave the door open and a glass of wine for ELIJAH if he is dead and can do no more???
“Let the dead bury the dead.”
It doesn’t.
When asked by His disciples to teach them to pray, Jesus taught them (us) to pray to the Father.
He gave no instructions otherwise.
I don’t pray TO them. I ask them to pray / intercede for me.
I am still reading all the comments posted so far. Yet, somehow I am both amused and confused that man, with his limited understanding, can be so certain that only what he believes is correct, and that reading and citing a translated document can somehow “prove” that which he is incapable of understanding. Perhaps in some of the later posts this will become clear to me, but after reading about half the posts, I see no likelihood.
If a perso, or persons are determined to cobble together a religion that includes praying to so-called saints; have at it, but there’s no clear cut support in the Word for it.
Furthermore, we are admonished in Matthew 23:9 to call no man “Father” because our true Father is in Heaven.
Dinner is about ready and I need to serve it. I leave this with you:
What Catholics mean by Tradition is not the same that Jesus complains about when he says, ``So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God.’’ (Mt 15:6) and ``You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.’’ (Mk 7:8). Jesus here means human traditions, that is, practices that men devise that may even surround the worship of God, and he condemns especially putting ritual ahead of the needs of one’s neighbor.
Catholics mean by Tradition (capitalized), the beliefs and practices that Jesus gave to mankind through the Apostles. It is this Divine Tradition that St. Paul encourages us to follow:
I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you. (1 Cor 11:2)
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. (2 Thess 2:15)
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. (2 Thess 3:6)
What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do; and the God of peace will be with you. (Philippians 4:9)
It is important to note that St. Paul says that the traditions were taught not only through writing (letters), but also by word of mouth and by example.
One charge leveled against the Catholic Church is that the Magisterium, or teaching authority, is continuously revealing the teachings of Christ. In actuality, the Church teaches that the period of divine revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle. The Magisterium only re-presents the sacred deposit of Christ’s teachings to each new generation, explaining to each age using in terms of its particular language and ideas the same unchanging truths of faith.
The Divine Tradition is part of this sacred deposit of Divine Revelation that Christ entrusted to the Church and which her Magisterium guards from all falsehood. The other part of that sacred deposit is Sacred Scripture.
God bless all of you...sincerely.