“15 Therefore let no man despise my servant Oliver Granger, but let the blessings of my people be on him forever and ever.”
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have been lax in my attention to Oliver Granger, a great man.
Regarding Adam Ondi Ahman, how can you say a prophesy is not true just because it hasn’t happened yet?
Easy, the man who said it isn’t a prophet. Simple as that...
The same way you IGNORE 'prophecies' that cannot come true!!
Like the various items that have been brought to your attention in other threads.
(I hope you enjoyed your Fourth of July cookout.)
OK. Be honest. If not with me on this thread, then with yourself:
If you "have been lax in" your attention to Oliver Granger, and yet you call him "a great man"...then please convey to us all -- without looking him up -- WHY would Mormons deem him a great man?...(other than what Freedomlover said in post #5: That's he's somebody significant just 'cause Joe Smith said so in the D&C).
Here's my point, Sandy: Smith PROPHESIED that Granger's "name shall be had in sacred remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord."
This should then mean that Granger has become a household byword among Mormons on some kind of ongoing basis.
Imagine then, Sandy...let's say you are reading D&C 117 to an 8, 9 or 10 yo grandchild. That grandchild asks you, "Who is Oliver Granger? Why should we remember him in a sacred way every generation?"
What would your response be?
What would the typical Mormon response be?
I would wager that the typical Mormon wouldn't be able to answer that question...which would mean then that Mormons DON'T -- and HAVEN'T -- been remembering Oliver Granger "in sacred remembrance."
Result? The "shall" of Joseph Smith's prophesy here has proved to be a false prophesy.
So...class...how many burglaries does it take to be a burglar? (One)
How many robberies does it take to be a robber? (One)
How many murders does it take to be a murderer? (One)
How many false prophecies does it take to be a false prophet? (One)
21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously... (Deut. 18:21-22)
Good question. (Thank you for asking)
#1...We need to clarify what this "prophesy" might be to begin with, because historically, there is widespread disagreement upon Mormon leaders...which, btw, doesn't come across as very "orderly"...and Mormonism is BIG on "orderly":
Example: The term Adam-ondi-Ahman has been speculatively translated as...
the "Valley of God, where Adam dwelt" (by Orson Pratt), [Source: Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 1, which cites Journal of Discourses 18:343]
Adam-ondi-Ahman "the valley of God in which Adam blessed his children" (by John Corrill) [Roberts, B.H. Comprehensive History of the Church, Vol. 1:421]
"Adam's grave" (by Community of Christ historian Heman C. Smith) [Smith, H.C. ed., Journal of History, Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Independence, MO: Herald House, 9:140]
or "Adam with God," because elsewhere in the Doctrine and Covenants "Son Ahman" is said to refer to Jesus.[D&C78:20]
Source of above: Adam-ondi-Ahman
#2...But...MOST Mormon leaders are on agreement of one thing: That when Joseph Smith wrote in D&C 116: "ADAM-ONDI-AHMAN, because said he, it is the place where Adam shall come to visit his people, or the Ancient of Days shall sit, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet"...they therefore interpret the "Ancient of Days" as a reference to Adam.
Well, guess what?
Judaism AND Christianity have ALWAYS said "Ancient of Days" is a reference to God, not Adam...so, unless you're Brigham Young, who taught for over 20 years that Adam=God, this is a clear contradiction:
This term [Ancient of Days] appears three times in the book of Daniel (7:9, 13, 22),[1] and is used in the sense of God being eternal. [Source: M.G. Easton (1897). Easton's Bible Dictionary, "Ancient of Days.": "In contrast with all earthly kings, his days are past reckoning."]
So...Sandy...IF Joseph Smith mis-ID'D who this "Ancient of Days" is...then yup...we can call it a "false prophesy" on this basis...even before the alleged event is supposed to happen.
Oh, Sandy.