Lds prophecies: Adam returnin' to Missouri? Plus, y'all recall Oliver Granger, right? [Vanity]

On the day of July 8, 1838 -- 175 years ago tomorrow -- the original "prophet" of the Church of Mormon, Joseph Smith, made up four "revelations" from the Mormon god:

These are recorded in Doctrine & Covenants (numbers 117, 118, 119, & 120). Let's look at some of the verses in these:

117:12: I say unto you, I remember my servant Oliver Granger; behold, verily I say unto him that his name shall be had in sacred remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord."

Well, surely, you Mormons do. Right? You hold his name as a household sacred byword. Right? Generation after generation? Yes? No?

What? As Oliver Granger obscurity continues, a false prophesy by Smith, then? (Apparently so)

Earlier in the chapter, Smith returns to talk about "the mountains of Adam-ondi-Ahman and on the plains of Olaha Shinehah, or the land where Adam dwelt..." (v. 8) [In D&C 116, Adam had unveiled less than two months earlier that "Adam shall come to visit his people" in this place; original reference was in D&C 78]

Per Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: "Adam-ondi-Ahman -- meaning the place or land of God where Adam dwelt -- is at a place called Spring Hill, Davies County, Missouri. This site is named by the Lord 'Adam-ondi-Ahman...'" (The Millennial Messiah, pp. 587-588)

LDS Church "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. stated that before the Second Coming, Adam will convene another meeting at that place to turn the government of the human family officially to Jesus Christ (Source: Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p. 13)

So...Spring Hill, MO...I know that's on the bluffs of a river. Yet Smith talks about "the mountains" of this area, which is now farmland owned by the Mormon church. What "mountains" rise up there?

Per another Lds "apostle" -- Mark E. Petersen, in his book, Adam: Who is He? -- says on p. 15 that Adam lived in Missouri.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have been lax in my attention to Oliver Granger, a great man.

OK. Be honest. If not with me on this thread, then with yourself:

If you "have been lax in" your attention to Oliver Granger, and yet you call him "a great man"...then please convey to us all -- without looking him up -- WHY would Mormons deem him a great man?...(other than what Freedomlover said in post #5: That's he's somebody significant just 'cause Joe Smith said so in the D&C).

Here's my point, Sandy: Smith PROPHESIED that Granger's "name shall be had in sacred remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord."

This should then mean that Granger has become a household byword among Mormons on some kind of ongoing basis.

Imagine then, Sandy...let's say you are reading D&C 117 to an 8, 9 or 10 yo grandchild. That grandchild asks you, "Who is Oliver Granger? Why should we remember him in a sacred way every generation?"

What would your response be?
What would the typical Mormon response be?

I would wager that the typical Mormon wouldn't be able to answer that question...which would mean then that Mormons DON'T -- and HAVEN'T -- been remembering Oliver Granger "in sacred remembrance."

Result? The "shall" of Joseph Smith's prophesy here has proved to be a false prophesy.

So...class...how many burglaries does it take to be a burglar? (One)
How many robberies does it take to be a robber? (One)
How many murders does it take to be a murderer? (One)
How many false prophecies does it take to be a false prophet? (One)

21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously... (Deut. 18:21-22)

Regarding Adam Ondi Ahman, how can you say a prophesy is not true just because it hasn’t happened yet?

Good question. (Thank you for asking)

#1...We need to clarify what this "prophesy" might be to begin with, because historically, there is widespread disagreement upon Mormon leaders...which, btw, doesn't come across as very "orderly"...and Mormonism is BIG on "orderly":

Example: The term Adam-ondi-Ahman has been speculatively translated as...
the "Valley of God, where Adam dwelt" (by Orson Pratt), [Source: Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 1, which cites Journal of Discourses 18:343]
Adam-ondi-Ahman "the valley of God in which Adam blessed his children" (by John Corrill) [Roberts, B.H. Comprehensive History of the Church, Vol. 1:421]
"Adam's grave" (by Community of Christ historian Heman C. Smith) [Smith, H.C. ed., Journal of History, Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Independence, MO: Herald House, 9:140]
or "Adam with God," because elsewhere in the Doctrine and Covenants "Son Ahman" is said to refer to Jesus.[D&C78:20]

Source of above: Adam-ondi-Ahman

#2...But...MOST Mormon leaders are on agreement of one thing: That when Joseph Smith wrote in D&C 116: "ADAM-ONDI-AHMAN, because said he, it is the place where Adam shall come to visit his people, or the Ancient of Days shall sit, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet"...they therefore interpret the "Ancient of Days" as a reference to Adam.

Well, guess what?

Judaism AND Christianity have ALWAYS said "Ancient of Days" is a reference to God, not Adam...so, unless you're Brigham Young, who taught for over 20 years that Adam=God, this is a clear contradiction:

This term [Ancient of Days] appears three times in the book of Daniel (7:9, 13, 22),[1] and is used in the sense of God being eternal. [Source: M.G. Easton (1897). Easton's Bible Dictionary, "Ancient of Days.": "In contrast with all earthly kings, his days are past reckoning."]

So...Sandy...IF Joseph Smith mis-ID'D who this "Ancient of Days" is...then yup...we can call it a "false prophesy" on this basis...even before the alleged event is supposed to happen.

The last time JimRob considered this, he called me a newbie. That makes 99.9% of all active freepers newbies.

From my home page...

___________________________________________________________________

I would like to see a VOLUNTARY idealogy litmus matrix here on Free Republic, but when I proposed it to Jimrob, he called me a newbie.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2145065/posts?page=130#130
To: babygene I don’t think he’s all that interested.
To: MHGinTN It doesn’t matter what a FReeper thinks. It’s just a list that they tell us what they think. That way we can tell who we’re dealing with.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2145065/posts?page=130#130
To: Jim Robinson Hah hah, that’s great. I signed up 2 months after you and I’m a newbie. Back then no one even said, “Welcome to FR”. But yeah, I do think that there are tons of RINOs. To be more accurate, the term would be CINOs.
I’ve been pushing for an idealogical litmus matrix here on FR, not to get rid of RINOs but to expose them.
THE GOP DOESN’T WANT US- SO WHAT’S NEXT?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1965735/posts?page=762#762
***It simply takes too long. Look at this thread alone. I see evidence of RINOism in some of the FReepers on this thread. It takes 700 posts to drill down. We need the matrix posted and available so that we don’t have to drill down on every FReeping thread. They’re wasting our time. Deliberately.

Agreed to a large degree. Perhaps a way to rate members by other members???
762 posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:43:23 PM by roamer_1
130 posted on Monday, December 08, 2008 2:39:20 PM by Kevmo (Palin/Hunter 2012)
49 posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 7:29:27 PM by Kevmo ( It’s all over for this Country as a Constitutional Republic. ~Leo Donofrio, 12/14/08)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies] 48 posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 10:25:08 PM by Kevmo (So America gets what America deserves - the destruction of its Constitution. ~Leo Donofrio, 6/1/09)

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ping to 2313

Ping to Mormon 'scripture'...

Kolob is a star or planet described in Mormon scripture.

Reference to Kolob is found in the Book of Abraham.

"If You Could Hie to Kolob", the hymn

Kolob as the inspiration for Kobol in Battlestar Galactica

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob

Figure	Joseph Smith Explanation^[52]	Explanation by non-Mormon and Mormon Egyptologists (quotes are from Deveria)^[25]^[43]^[53]
1	Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh.	"The spirit of the four elements (according to Champollion), or rather of the four winds, or the four cardinal points; the soul of the terrestrial world. This god is always represented with four rams' heads, and his image has certainly been altered here. — They have also evidently made a very clumsy attempt at copying the double human head of the god figured above, fig. 2, instead of the four rams' heads. The word Jah-oh-eh has nothing Egyptian in it; it resembles the Hebrew word [redacted] badly transcribed." (emphasis in original) The name hieroglyph above the central figure is Chnm-Re, the Egyptian "First Creator" god who organized everything out of the primordial chaos.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham

"What Christian wouldn’t be offended by a religion that teaches men can become Gods ..."

What is it about a real Christian that would cause such blasphemies to be offensive? ... God's Spirit within the human spirit. That someone is not at all offended by such blasphemies is an indication of something missing, eh?

Compare it to someone saying lies about my decased brother whose memory is fixed in my heart with the love I retain toward him. If I could listen to lies and insults about my brother I claim to love ... well, you get the gist.

There is a phenomenon of feeling uncomfortable when in the presence of a heated discussion. Such folks usually just leave or avoid the scene. But it is quite different to jump in guns blazing, to attack one of the sides in the discussion.

When posters are objecting to the blasphemies at the heart of Mormonism, and someone attacks those who are exposing those blasphemies but the attacker claims to be an adherent to the beliefs about which the blasphemies are being spewed, well, the adherent is not so genuine, eh?

A Christian will be offended by the blasphemies, but a pretend Christian has no anchor, no compass arising from God's Spirit in their human spirit. Of such there is likely poor recognition of the issues at hand, much less a rudder for guidance when professional deceivers are at work, as in Mormonism apologists.

"What Christian wouldn’t be offended by a religion that teaches men can become Gods ..."
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That someone is not at all offended by such blasphemies is an indication of something missing, eh?

What may be 'missing' is a lack of knowledge about what is contained in MORMON scripture.

Read and remain ignorant no more:

The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in ^amarriage; but are appointed angels in ^bheaven, which angels are ministering ^cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are ^aangels of God forever and ever.
18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that ^acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man ^amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and ^beverlasting covenant, and it is ^csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of ^dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ^ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit ^fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s ^gBook of Life, that he shall commit no ^hmurder whereby to shed innocent ⁱblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their ^jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the ^kseeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from ^aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be ^bgods, because they have ^call power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my ^alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.
22For ^astrait is the gate, and narrow the ^bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the ^clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that ^awhere I am ye shall be also.
24This is ^aeternal lives—to ^bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath ^csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
25^aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the ^bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they ^creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.

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