Deceptive lies are troubling all right...
The following are the LYING images that MORMONism has produced, KNOWING that they represent something FALSE!!
Posted on 07/04/2013 8:54:37 AM PDT by Colofornian
St. George Mormon Temple Haunted? Did the Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to a later Lds 'prophet'?
Without saying his name, Mormon leaders and grassroots Mormons daily reference Wilford Woodruff when they interact with non-Mormons and the media.
How so?
Well, they like to tell others how polygamy is a supposed bygone of another era; how a certain Lds "prophet" in 1890 put the kabosh on it...or, at least, started a mainstream Mormon move toward monogamy.
Yet, there's a little-known episode that this same Wilford Woodruff said that occurred in the 1870s -- before becoming the head "prophet" of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In the last two weeks before he left the St. George, Utah temple, we have at least four accounts that claim that the spirits of the signers of the Declaration of Independence -- with George Washington -- having appeared to Woodruff.
Is the temple haunted? Were these indeed ghosts of the signers?
Could they have been demons in disguise as ghosts?
Or was the one even contemporary Mormons appeal to as the "authoritative" voice of God on polygamy vs. monogamy perhaps given to wild religious fantasies?
Furthermore, does the official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints play down this occultic episode as being just a small event in the life of Woodruff?
Or are the sources questionable?
The answer to these last two questions is: Not at all. In fact anybody can go to Lds.org and find Lesson 39 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, where they would see a Sunday School lesson plan that actually plays it up and highlights Woodruff's claims...giving credence that contemporary Mormons buy into it! -- The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers
In fact, in the lesson plan detailing the account, Mormon church curricula writers then have their teachers ask the question:
What can we learn from these two stories? (Answers could include that those who are dead are anxious for us to perform ordinances for them and that we should be diligent in our efforts to redeem the dead.)
So the Mormon church actually see such occultic ghostly/demonic encounters as evidential of baptizing dead spirits!
Furthermore, Brigham Young University also includes the account as part of their curricula for incoming freshmen who have taken their "Religious Education Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)" course. In the BYU version of the account, the comment includes how "those men who laid the foundation of this American Government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men."
Yet Lds doctrine is that ALL men and ALL church members of the 18th century were "apostates." Joseph Smith claimed that when entities appeared to him -- supposedly early in the 19th century -- that he wasn't to join any of the churches that the founding fathers of our country were part of...plus Smith specifically said that these unnamed entities told him that "all" professors (professing believers) were "corrupt" (see Lds "scripture," Joseph Smith History, Pearl of Great Price, verses 18-20). How could the signers of the Declaration of Independence be both "choice spirits, not wicked" -- and "corrupt?"
Official Mormon doctrine emerged -- a doctrine that remains to this day -- that the historic Christian church went into complete apostasy well before the Founding Fathers came along and remained in apostasy in the 18th century. How can BYU label "apostates" the founding fathers? How can they "play it both ways" -- that the Founding Fathers were both apostates and "choice spirits, not wicked?"
Four accounts of The Haunting of St. George Temple:
1870s (Last two weeks before Woodruff left the temple):
Account #1 (BYU curricula): The following account of Wilford Woodruff helps demonstrate the importance of this work to those who are on the other side of the veil. I am going to bear my testimony to this assembly, if I never do it again in my life, that those men who laid the foundation of this American Government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men. George Washington and all the men that labored for the purpose were inspired of the Lord. Another thing I am going to say here, because I have a right to say it. Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington called upon me, as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the house of God for them. Men are here, I believe, that know of this—Brothers J. D. T. McAllister, David H. Cannon and James C. Bleak. Brother McAllister baptized me for all these men, and I then told these brethren that it was their duty to go into the Temple and labor until they got endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me, as an Elder in Israel, to perform that work if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. I bear this testimony because it is true. The spirit of God bore record to myself and the brethren while we were laboring in that way (Lundwall, 1947, p. 87). Source: Religious Education C261 Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)
Account #2 (personal journal of Chief Record of the St. George temple): Temple and witnessed the appearance of the Spirits of the Signers... .the spirits of the Presidents...And also others, such as Martin Luther and John Wesley...Who came to Wilford Woodruff and demanded that their baptism and endowments be done. Wilford Woodruff was baptized for all of them. While I and Brothers J.D.T. McAllister and David H Cannon (who were witnesses to the request) were endowed for them. These men.. ..laid the foundation of this American Gov., and signed the Declaration of Independence and were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth to perform this work. Martin Luther and John Wesley helped to release the people from religious bondage that held them during the dark ages. They also prepared the peoples hearts so they would be ready to receive the restored gospel when the Lord sent it again to men on the earth.” (Personal journal of James Godson Bleak-Chief Recorder of the St. George Temple) p. 2 of this pdf: Vision of Former Eminent Men in The St. George Temple (By Glen W. Chapman, Jan, 2002)
Account #3 (Journal of Discourses): Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington, called upon me as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George, two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the House of God for them. Men are here, I believe, that know of this, Brother J. D. T. McAllister, David H. Cannon and James S. Bleak. Brother McAllister baptized me for all those men, and then I told these brethren that it was their duty to go into the temple and labor until they had got endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me as an elder of Israel, to perform that work, if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. JoD, vol. 19, pp. 229-231, Sept. 16, 1877
Account #4 (Official Lds curricula): Explain that for a period of time, President Woodruff served as president of the temple in St. George, Utah. It was in that temple that endowments for the dead were performed for the first time in this dispensation (see Doctrines of Salvation, 2:171). While serving there, President Woodruff was visited by the spirits of many “eminent men” who had died. Invite a class member to share the following account by President Woodruff: “The spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, ‘You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we … remained true to it and were faithful to God.’ These were the signers of the Declaration of Independence [of the United States of America], and they waited on me for two days and two nights. … I straightway went into the baptismal font and called upon Brother McAllister to baptize me for the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and fifty other eminent men, making one hundred in all, including John Wesley, Columbus, and others” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, sel. G. Homer Durham [1946], 160–61). • What can we learn from these two stories? (Answers could include that those who are dead are anxious for us to perform ordinances for them and that we should be diligent in our efforts to redeem the dead.) ((Lds Sunday School lesson from "Doctrine and Covenants and Church History," "The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers," p. 3)
Source: Lesson 39 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual -- The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers
Many non-Mormons complain too.
That is because we are WAY more effective!
“I am in my 50’s and have been actively involved in the LDS church for a lifetime, living in multiple states, and I have never, ever heard a church leader reference this, even once.”
I’ve actively involved myself with LDS for just a year or two and have heard it many times.
Then listen to one whose credibility is above question:
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
Deceptive lies are troubling all right...
1836: The Haunting of Kirtland Temple:
Temple dedications were often the scenes of such mysterious occurrences. Joseph Smith wrote of "many strange visions" that were seen when the first temple was dedicated at Kirkland, Ohio on 27 March 1836. It was noted that men would run about "under the influence," while others would "speak in a muttering, unnatural voice and their bodies [would] be distorted...."(49) 49. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, 1 April 1842, page 747. Source:
GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism
Many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen
"Soon after the Gospel was established in Kirtland...many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 213-214)
What kinds of "ridiculous things?"
The records of early Mormonism are replete with accounts of activity from the spirit world. According to John Whitmer, who was the official Church Historian in Joseph Smith's time, some converts to the new religion would "act like an Indian in the act of scalping," or would "slide or scoot on the floor with the rapidity of a serpent...."(46) During the ordination ceremony of Harvey Whitlock as a high priest in 1831, he was seen to have "turned as black as Lyman was white," his fingers "were set like claws," and, unable to speak, he went about the room with eyes "as the shape of oval Os...."(47) On another occasion, one man, who weighed over 200 pounds, was thrown through the air by an unseen force, and another "began screaming like a panther...."(48) 46. John Whitmer, John Whitmer's History (Salt Lake City, Utah: Modern Microfilm Company, n.d.), Chapter Six. 47. Max H. Parkin, Conflict at Kirtland: A Study of the Nature and Causes of External and Internal Conflict of the Mormons in Ohio Between 1830 and 1838 (Salt Lake City: Max Parkin, 1966), pages 79-80. 48. Parkin, ibid. Source:
GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism
Now did these "spirits" leave Mormons alone after this jumpstart? Not on your life:
"Soon after the Gospel was established in Kirtland...many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into... (Joseph Smith pp. 213-214)
I miss ol' PD!HE was about useless when it came to defending his faith; but at LEAST he had a bunch of links that showed interested people where to find the MILK of MORMONism...
Here; in his memory; is The LIST:
Ghosts... ...or the guests?
Didn’t get very deep into theology; did ya...
So, aside from your lack of basic reading skills...allow me to also explain why I even pointed out that Mormons (both leaders and grassroots Mormons TOGETHER) DAILY REFERENCE Wilford Woodruff himself -- even when they do so indirectly?
I mentioned it to show that Mormons don't deem Wilford Woodruff as simply some obscure NOBODY from yesteryear.
IOW, Mormons today -- BOTH leaders AND grassroots Mormons -- cite Woodruff authoritatively as a SOMEBODY...a Mormon AUTHORITY who exercised the sheer power to change the entire Mormon culture from institutional polygamy to institutional monogamy.
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Yeah. You just never know about those spirits.
(I've heard it said they like to HANGover AROUND)
“I can’t remember. It’s been a lifetime since I read it.). Then, further on, it say Isaias appears, and everyone is amazed, except that Isaias is the greek form of Isaiah,”
You know, this is actually a mistake I’ve seen Mormons make in a debate. A Mormon was making some absurd claim (I’ve forgotten the details), and during the process got Isaiah and Esaias confused as two different people. When I pointed out that Esaias is just Isaiah, he wouldn’t believe me. I even showed him proof, and he would not believe me that Isaiah and Esaias were actually the same person. I thought he was just illiterate in the Bible, being a Mormon, but now you make me think that they’re probably taught that there is a Prophet named Isaiah and a Prophet named Esaias who are separate people.
Mormonism is based on feelings, maintained by distortions of history, Scripture and fact, propped up by rituals from Masonism that do not appear in mormonic verses, coerced by fear and ended when The Biblical Lord Jesus Christ intervenes to open the eyes of those who seek truth.
Thank God HE is Faithful!
So far so good; until a Living Prophet® decides to countermand something that WW taught or believed.
Management...and the lapsed Mormons.
So far so good; until a Living Prophet® decides to countermand something that WW taught or believed. [Elsie]
True...As Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson said...a "living prophet" trumps the dead ones...hence...Lds show their true colors not only to readily dismissing the Bible by whim of a current "prophet" -- but even their own add-on "scriptures."
That's why when BYU prof - author Bob Millet defines the Lds standard works as a "standard" to measure all doctrine...that's all a bunch of crock & hooey...
Why? Exactly because of what Elz mentions here: The "standard" becomes, in Mormonism, ANYTHING -- and I mean ANYTHING that the current "living Mormon 'prophet'" declares!
Hence...Elz' comment reminds me of a 1960s survey of Mormons about how many would jump back into polygamy if the Mormon "prophet" told them to do it:
"Another survey taken in the 1960s found that not only do contemporary church members overwhelmingly disapprove of polygamy but only two in five said they would enter the principle if commanded by the prophets." [B. Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant, University of Illinois Press, p. 339, citing survey published in 1963 by John R. Christiansen, "Contemporary Mormons' Attitudes Toward Polygamous Practices," Journal of Marriage and Family 25 (May 1963): pp. 167-170)].
Now I don't know about you -- but 40% who said "they would enter the principle if commanded by the prophets" in 1963 is pretty high!
Imagine that, everybody!
2 of 5 of your Mormon neighbors would expand their bedrooms in their homes come the edict from the Mormon "prophet"...
Of the other 3 of 5 of your Mormon neighbors, 2 of them are probably "jack Mormons" and don't pay attention much to what the "living prophet" says, anymore...
The other 20% are households ruled by a wife who would put a "No Trespassing" sign on their bedroom door (or additional husbandly bedroom doors in their home)
Well I know that Joseph Smith didn't know that "Esias" is simply a Greek form of "Elijah" -- and therefore in Doctrine & Covenants mistakenly treats them as two different people.
I read a book by a former Lds "prophet" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., Religious Truths Defined ... 1959). On page 79, he claims that "pre-mortal spirits are graded."
Hence Mormon leaders try to convey that...
...some pre-existence existed (tho we can't remember it);
...some such spirits there were more "valiant" than others;
...these spirits were "graded";
...and then you get heads of Mormon women's auxiliaries (Mrs. Neill Marriott) -- promoted by the very top etchelon of SLC via its worldwide June 23 broadcast...that "choice" spirits existed in this pre-existence...
...and, of course, these best spirits "landed" in Mormondom on earth.
It's a "neat circle" they've invented that reinforces itself.
It conveys: "Hey, we're great because some spirits were greater in the pre-existence. And the Mormon god of the Church of Mormon picked out those greater spirits to be in Mormon families. And that's just the way it is. (Even tho we can't remember ANY of it)"
Mormon elitism at its finest!
“Well I know that Joseph Smith didn’t know that “Esias” is simply a Greek form of “Elijah” — and therefore in Doctrine & Covenants mistakenly treats them as two different people.”
Now that you mention it, I remember the details now. His mistake (the Mormon I mentioned) wasn’t with Esaias and Isaiah, though I can see him making the same mistake since that’s how it’s spelled in the New Testament (and Smith’s way of doing theology seemed to be rather random). It was with Elias and Elijah. If I remember correctly, his argument was that Joseph Smith was Elijah all along, who was to come before the coming of Jesus Christ. When I replied that this was fulfilled by John the Baptist. He told me that John the Baptist was Elias, a different person. What a poor fellow! But it was an argument I only ever heard once, after many many debates with LDS.
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