Lds Temple Haunted? Did Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to leader? [Vanity]

Free Republic [Vanity] ^ | July 1, 2011 | Colofornian

[Colofornian]

St. George Mormon Temple Haunted? Did the Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to a later Lds 'prophet'?

Without saying his name, Mormon leaders and grassroots Mormons daily reference Wilford Woodruff when they interact with non-Mormons and the media.

How so?

Well, they like to tell others how polygamy is a supposed bygone of another era; how a certain Lds "prophet" in 1890 put the kabosh on it...or, at least, started a mainstream Mormon move toward monogamy.

Yet, there's a little-known episode that this same Wilford Woodruff said that occurred in the 1870s -- before becoming the head "prophet" of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In the last two weeks before he left the St. George, Utah temple, we have at least four accounts that claim that the spirits of the signers of the Declaration of Independence -- with George Washington -- having appeared to Woodruff.

Is the temple haunted? Were these indeed ghosts of the signers?

Could they have been demons in disguise as ghosts?

Or was the one even contemporary Mormons appeal to as the "authoritative" voice of God on polygamy vs. monogamy perhaps given to wild religious fantasies?

Furthermore, does the official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints play down this occultic episode as being just a small event in the life of Woodruff?

Or are the sources questionable?

The answer to these last two questions is: Not at all. In fact anybody can go to Lds.org and find Lesson 39 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, where they would see a Sunday School lesson plan that actually plays it up and highlights Woodruff's claims...giving credence that contemporary Mormons buy into it! -- The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers

In fact, in the lesson plan detailing the account, Mormon church curricula writers then have their teachers ask the question:

What can we learn from these two stories? (Answers could include that those who are dead are anxious for us to perform ordinances for them and that we should be diligent in our efforts to redeem the dead.)

So the Mormon church actually see such occultic ghostly/demonic encounters as evidential of baptizing dead spirits!

Furthermore, Brigham Young University also includes the account as part of their curricula for incoming freshmen who have taken their "Religious Education Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)" course. In the BYU version of the account, the comment includes how "those men who laid the foundation of this American Government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men."

Yet Lds doctrine is that ALL men and ALL church members of the 18th century were "apostates." Joseph Smith claimed that when entities appeared to him -- supposedly early in the 19th century -- that he wasn't to join any of the churches that the founding fathers of our country were part of...plus Smith specifically said that these unnamed entities told him that "all" professors (professing believers) were "corrupt" (see Lds "scripture," Joseph Smith History, Pearl of Great Price, verses 18-20). How could the signers of the Declaration of Independence be both "choice spirits, not wicked" -- and "corrupt?"

Official Mormon doctrine emerged -- a doctrine that remains to this day -- that the historic Christian church went into complete apostasy well before the Founding Fathers came along and remained in apostasy in the 18th century. How can BYU label "apostates" the founding fathers? How can they "play it both ways" -- that the Founding Fathers were both apostates and "choice spirits, not wicked?"

Four accounts of The Haunting of St. George Temple:

1870s (Last two weeks before Woodruff left the temple):

Account #1 (BYU curricula): The following account of Wilford Woodruff helps demonstrate the importance of this work to those who are on the other side of the veil. I am going to bear my testimony to this assembly, if I never do it again in my life, that those men who laid the foundation of this American Government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men. George Washington and all the men that labored for the purpose were inspired of the Lord. Another thing I am going to say here, because I have a right to say it. Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington called upon me, as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the house of God for them. Men are here, I believe, that know of this—Brothers J. D. T. McAllister, David H. Cannon and James C. Bleak. Brother McAllister baptized me for all these men, and I then told these brethren that it was their duty to go into the Temple and labor until they got endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me, as an Elder in Israel, to perform that work if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. I bear this testimony because it is true. The spirit of God bore record to myself and the brethren while we were laboring in that way (Lundwall, 1947, p. 87). Source: Religious Education C261 Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)

Account #2 (personal journal of Chief Record of the St. George temple): Temple and witnessed the appearance of the Spirits of the Signers... .the spirits of the Presidents...And also others, such as Martin Luther and John Wesley...Who came to Wilford Woodruff and demanded that their baptism and endowments be done. Wilford Woodruff was baptized for all of them. While I and Brothers J.D.T. McAllister and David H Cannon (who were witnesses to the request) were endowed for them. These men.. ..laid the foundation of this American Gov., and signed the Declaration of Independence and were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth to perform this work. Martin Luther and John Wesley helped to release the people from religious bondage that held them during the dark ages. They also prepared the peoples hearts so they would be ready to receive the restored gospel when the Lord sent it again to men on the earth.” (Personal journal of James Godson Bleak-Chief Recorder of the St. George Temple) p. 2 of this pdf: Vision of Former Eminent Men in The St. George Temple (By Glen W. Chapman, Jan, 2002)

Account #3 (Journal of Discourses): Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington, called upon me as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George, two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the House of God for them. Men are here, I believe, that know of this, Brother J. D. T. McAllister, David H. Cannon and James S. Bleak. Brother McAllister baptized me for all those men, and then I told these brethren that it was their duty to go into the temple and labor until they had got endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me as an elder of Israel, to perform that work, if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. JoD, vol. 19, pp. 229-231, Sept. 16, 1877

Account #4 (Official Lds curricula): Explain that for a period of time, President Woodruff served as president of the temple in St. George, Utah. It was in that temple that endowments for the dead were performed for the first time in this dispensation (see Doctrines of Salvation, 2:171). While serving there, President Woodruff was visited by the spirits of many “eminent men” who had died. Invite a class member to share the following account by President Woodruff: “The spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, ‘You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we … remained true to it and were faithful to God.’ These were the signers of the Declaration of Independence [of the United States of America], and they waited on me for two days and two nights. … I straightway went into the baptismal font and called upon Brother McAllister to baptize me for the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and fifty other eminent men, making one hundred in all, including John Wesley, Columbus, and others” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, sel. G. Homer Durham [1946], 160–61). • What can we learn from these two stories? (Answers could include that those who are dead are anxious for us to perform ordinances for them and that we should be diligent in our efforts to redeem the dead.) ((Lds Sunday School lesson from "Doctrine and Covenants and Church History," "The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers," p. 3)
Source: Lesson 39 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual -- The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers

[reaganaut]

//I am still waiting for anything to remotely support the “daily reference” assertion. Crickets chirping on that one?//

Not at all. Mormons DO nearly daily reference Woodruff which is what Colo claimed.

//Also, when in history have devoted followers of God and their beliefs been considered “normal” by the prevailing religious “orthodoxy” of the world in their day?//

Seriously? Proof you have no clue about Christian history.

[JustTheTruth]

Obviously I must have touched a raw nerve there somewhere.

[Elsie]

While I can't speak of Masonic temples (never having been in one), I've been in churches & temples from Temple Square in SLC and Salisbury Cathedral to New Synagogue in Berlin and Notre Dame de Paris, and I've never gotten a "weird, false empty feeling" from any of them.

SLC is building a new one in Carmel, Indiana - a few miles from me. It will be located between two golf courses, in one of the richest communities in Indiana.

I plan to 'visit' during it's Open House.

After the opening ceremonies are over; they WILL be holding a Cleansing ceremony; to rid the building, no doubt, of the "weird, false empty" spirits that were brought in by so many UNWORTHY visitors.

[Elsie]

...I've never gotten a "weird, false empty feeling" from any of them.

JS got some "weird, false empty feeling"s from HIS experiences in MormonISM!

---

. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.

 

http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,104-1-3-4,00.html

[Elsie]

and...btw...are you finding fault with me again??? :-)

No...

Still; separated brethren.

--MormonDude(You know we'll STILL take YOU back. Just LOOK at our history of how many witnesses were EXCOMMUNICATED; and JS restored THEM to positions of power; so SURELY headquarters would do the same for a mere fly-in-the-ointment like YOU!)

[Elsie]

I’ll bet when Binger sits down; his lap almost disappears!

[Elsie]

Obviously I must have touched a raw nerve there somewhere.

Indeed!

And, if I were you; I'd get that tooth taken care of!

[Elsie]

Obviously I must have touched a raw nerve there somewhere.

But; to be effective, a BROOMSTICK must be used to do the 'touching'...

---

Eliza was a devout Mormon.

At age 38, she became Joseph Smith's 14th plural wife (in addition to Smith's lawful wife, Emma).

In 1842, after learning Eliza was pregnant, Emma Smith beat Eliza with a broomstick and

knocked her down a flight of stairs, causing Eliza to miscarry Smith's baby.

Miss Eliza R. Snow  was one of the first (willing) victims of Joseph in Nauvoo. She used to be much at the prophet’s house he made her one of his celestial brides... . Feeling outraged as a wife and betrayed as a friend, Emma is currently reported as having had recourse to a vulgar broomstick as an instrument of revenge: and the harsh treatment received at Emma’s hands is said to have destroyed Eliza’s hopes of becoming the mother of a prophet’s son (Dr. W. Wyl, Mormon Portraits, 1886, pp.57-58).

The Mormon writer Claire Noall acknowledged: “Willard realized that Emma had refused to believe that any of the young women boarding at the Mansion when it was first used as a hotel had been married to Joseph. She had struck Eliza Snow at the head of the stairs, and Eliza, it was whispered, had lost her unborn child” (Intimate Disciple, a Portrait of Willard Richards, 1957, p.407).

Sometime during February of 1843 Emma evidently became aware that Joseph had taken her best friend, Eliza R. Snow, as a plural wife. Eliza was currently living in the Smith home, which housed a number of boarders. LDS historians Linda Newell and Valeen Avery wrote:

When the full realization of the relationship between her friend Eliza and her husband Joseph came to her, Emma was stunned. . . . Although no contemporary account of the incident between Emma and Eliza remains extant, evidence leads to the conclusion that some sort of physical confrontation occurred between the two women. In 1886 Wilhelm Wyl published the first known version of the incident in his book, Joseph Smith the Prophet: His Family and His Friends:

They say . . . there is scarcely a Mormon unacquainted with the fact that Sister Emma . . . soon found out the little compromise arranged between Joseph and Eliza. Feeling outraged as a wife and betrayed as a friend, Emma is currently reported as having had recourse to a vulgar broomstick as an instrument of revenge; and the harsh treatment received at Emma’s hands is said to have destroyed Eliza’s hopes of becoming the mother of a prophet’s son...

Another story, attributed to LeRoi C. Snow, Eliza’s nephew, is an oral family tradition that tells of Emma knocking Eliza down the stairs with a broom, the fall resulting in a miscarriage for Eliza. . . .

Whether Eliza fell down the stairs or whether Emma pushed her or pulled her down by the hair, or whether Emma only turned her out of the house, the result seems to be documented in Eliza’s terse journal entry for February 11, 1843:

‘Took board and had my lodging removed to the residence of br. [Jonathan] Holmes.’

Eliza did not make another entry in her journal for five weeks and wrote no explanation for either the gap in her diary or her abrupt departure from Emma’s home. . . .

Several acquaintances of Eliza spoke of Emma discovering Eliza’s relationship with Joseph, leading to her departure.

 

The incident between Emma and Eliza forced the issue of plural marriage into the open. Emma could no longer believe that Joseph was not involved, and he could no longer deny it. Emma had not acted with violence before; now her determined opposition might show up again with unexpected force. Joseph resolutely tried to bring Emma around (Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, by Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery, 1994, pp. 134-137).

---

---

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no106.htm

 

---

---

 

 

[MarkBsnr]

I grilled the hamburgers and weenies while SIL grilled the baby back ribs.

Well, okay, I'll allow it. The important thing is the application of fire to meat.

[BlueDragon]

Obviously I must have touched a raw nerve there somewhere.

Obviously, telling someone they are obsessed with fault finding is itself some of that fault finding which is complained about. Then there was this;

I won’t be looking back at this string, however, because I have a life to live, focused on better and more fulfilling things to do other than to engage in such pointless debate.

But here ye be! Whatsamatta? The effort to cap off the fault-finding in others, laying it down like it would be the 'last word' having rather failed, leads to the breaking of one's word so that upon return some fault can again be pointed towards? Doubling down on it, with a little extra word-breaking on the side?

Such an impressive display...of what exactly I'm either not entirely certain --- or am forbidden to say.

We've all seen the performance before. There are many volunteer actors, taking it upon themselves to opine, seem to ad lib similar lines, with similar lack of self awareness during the presentation. Curious that...the "rules" must apply...to...those people...over there!

Not this little black duck.

[Elsie]

Have you noticed that we have NEVER gotten a MORMON to comment on the MEAT prohibition in these threads?

[MarkBsnr]

Have you noticed that we have NEVER gotten a MORMON to comment on the MEAT prohibition in these threads?

Well, wouldn't it break their long standing prohibition on actually following their own rules?

[JustTheTruth]

I did not go back to the thread, but in looking at my Freeper Mail, your post jumped up at me. And no, I won’t read your lengthy pasted nonsense. Bye.

[JustTheTruth]

Correction: I went to “posts”...not mail. Whatever.

[BlueDragon]

Freep mail? I didn't send you a thing, by way of feepmail.

And you were present on this thread. You came back after indicating would "not be looking back at this string". Perhaps you meant something else by that?

But this freepmail accusation thing. Check again. Perhaps I am being mistaken for someone else? That sort of thing can happen I suppose.

I just went to my own "mail" page and double-checked, looking at the "sent" box...and don't see a thing addressed to "JustTheTruth". I'm sure an admin moderator could confirm that I have not sent a thing to you by way of what we call around here, "freepmail".

Please re-check your own, then come back and offer some adjustment to your comments. Perhaps you are mistaking "posts to you" for "mail". Those are two separate functions.

As for "lengthy pasted(?)nonsense...what in the world are you referring to? I can craft some long replies, that is true. But what I submitted here as reply to your own comments, was as short as it was less than sweet.

There was no "pasting" of anything in what I sent as comment. But just wow ---the "technique" displayed in your own reply is stunning.

I must have hit a nerve?

[ejonesie22]

A Mormon being duplicitous. Say it ain’t so...

[ejonesie22]

So since you were not going to look at this thread again I take you have you eyes closed?

Its a rhetorical question, closed eyes is the only way a honest person can be a Mormon...

[BlueDragon]

Ok, I see. You caught your own mistake. One of them. But not any others.

I made a mistake. I said there was no "pasting", when in fact there was. Two comments of your own included, which I copied from your own comments "here on this string", and "pasted" in comment addressed to you. So...I wasn't completely precise in my previous comment.

[BlueDragon]

We can all be duplicitous. It's one of those sad but evident facts of human nature. The human heart, who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9

[Elsie]

And no, I won’t read your lengthy pasted nonsense.

It's probably good that your mind is firmly fixed onto what you believe.

Saves you a LOT of time that would be wasted thinking.